Utilizing unused time of OPT

[kshitiz]

I completed my M.S. in August 2008, applied for OPT (which was approved and i even received my OPT card). I had job offers as well as PhD admissions. I went ahead with my PhD in 2008.

 

Now I wish to quit PhD. Is it possible that i can still use 12 months of my OPT that was approved in 2008, but never used up?

 

My current I-20 is that of PhD degree, but since i have finished the course requirement of a Master's degree, I will pick up another M.S. in December 2013 and planning to get a job starting January 2014. Just need to be sure if i will be starting a job as a PhD student who is on CPT, or can I use my OPT that i never utilized back in 2008.

 

A quick reply would be appreciated. And if there is slightest chance of using that OPT, i will go ahead and hire a lawyer from Murthy Law firm and carry on with further consultation.

 

Thanks,

Kshitiz Srivastava

[jairichi]

I completed my M.S. in August 2008, applied for OPT (which was approved and i even received my OPT card). I had job offers as well as PhD admissions. I went ahead with my PhD in 2008.

 

Now I wish to quit PhD. Is it possible that i can still use 12 months of my OPT that was approved in 2008, but never used up?

 

My current I-20 is that of PhD degree, but since i have finished the course requirement of a Master's degree, I will pick up another M.S. in December 2013 and planning to get a job starting January 2014. Just need to be sure if i will be starting a job as a PhD student who is on CPT, or can I use my OPT that i never utilized back in 2008.

 

A quick reply would be appreciated. And if there is slightest chance of using that OPT, i will go ahead and hire a lawyer from Murthy Law firm and carry on with further consultation.

 

Thanks,

Kshitiz Srivastava

Your MS OPT is long gone. If you finish your PhD you can get OPT.

[catx]

Your OPT employment authorization from your Masters is long gone.  It ended as soon as you started your PhD.  Also, it was only good until the expiry date.  There is no such thing as unused time on OPT employment authorization -- it is use it as issued or loss it.

 

How do you plan on starting a job in January 2014, because from what you posted you would not have any employment authorization.  You cannot use CPT which is part of your PhD program and cannot get OPT for a second Masters.  Your only option would appear to be a H-1B visa applied for by your employer in April 2014 for starting in October 2014.

[JoeF]

Sorry, you can not use the old OPT anymore. That was gone once you enrolled for the PhD.

[JoeF]

Oh, and you can't use CPT, either, unless that is a required part of the curriculum.

Abuse of CPT will kill your career in the US.

[kshitiz]

Thanks for response everyone. I thought so about my masters OPT. Just needed to confirm.

 

I am still enrolled as a PhD student, so i can use my CPT. I will not be abusing CPT. PhD is not going to happen, so i don't see the point of keeping an eye on future. Its now or never. I have job offers to join from January and they are willing to file H1B. I plan on starting with them on CPT and hopefully my H1B gets approved. I will have to bypass PhD OPT as i don't think i will be finishing PhD.

[JoeF]

Thanks for response everyone. I thought so about my masters OPT. Just needed to confirm.

 

I am still enrolled as a PhD student, so i can use my CPT.

No, you can NOT.

CPT is ONLY for work as integral part of the curriculum.

Anything else is abuse of CPT, which would kill your career in the US.

Do NOT abuse CPT. It will come back to bite you.

If you are in a PhD program, you should be able to understand this.

[t75]

If you are enrolled in PhD, you likely have obligations at the university.

[kshitiz]

JoeF,

 

I appreciate your response. I don't quiet understand what do you mean by I "Can NOT use CPT". If by law i cannot, then kindly give me more details. That's actually why I posted this thread, i need to explore all legal options.

 

But if it is your opinion (which i understand is with all best intentions, and i respect your response) I don't think you understand the situation here.

 

I understand that "Abuse of CPT will kill your career in US". But I already stated that my PhD is not going to happen. How will NOT using CPT and staying enrolled in PhD until my advisor or department asking me to leave will be better than using CPT? 

 

I have seen students go on a CPT during fall or spring in my department, so I am sure my department will not object to it. 

[JoeF]

The LAW says that CPT is only for work as integral part of the curriculum. A class has to require it.

8 FR 214.2(f).

If you drop out of school, your F1 becomes invalid immediately. If you don't study for the PhD anymore you need to leave the country.

Abuse of the F1, abuse of CPT will result in you never being able to get an H1, it will result in the end of your career in the US. CPT is not and has never been for working in some arbitrary job.

And what you :have seen" is completely irrelevant. You don't know the circumstances.

Again, you can NOT use CPT. Get that into your head.

If you drop out, you will have to leave the country.

[maverickp]

What everyone here is trying to probably tell you is this: CPT as you might know, stands for Curricular Practical Training. The "curricular" part is critical here - you can only use CPT if 2 conditions are fulfilled: (1) you are enrolled in your program full-time, be it BS, MS or PhD, and (2) your program of study requires such an employment as a part of the curriculum. In your case, unless I'm reading your situation wrong, you don't satisfy condition 1. So, that's why JoeF is warning you about abuse of CPT. If you try to use CPT without being enrolled in a program of study, that's against USCIS rules. If caught, you can be deported.

 

[JoeF]

What everyone here is trying to probably tell you is this: CPT as you might know, stands for Curricular Practical Training. The "curricular" part is critical here - you can only use CPT if 2 conditions are fulfilled: (1) you are enrolled in your program full-time, be it BS, MS or PhD, and (2) your program of study requires such an employment as a part of the curriculum. In your case, unless I'm reading your situation wrong, you don't satisfy condition 1. So, that's why JoeF is warning you about abuse of CPT. If you try to use CPT without being enrolled in a program of study, that's against USCIS rules. If caught, you can be deported.

 

#2 also doesn't seem to be satisfied here.

So, neither condition is satisfied, hence CPT is illegal in this situation.

Legitimate CPT is very rare, it would be part of a class, and not to work with some arbitrary employer.

[catx]

What everyone here is trying to probably tell you is this: CPT as you might know, stands for Curricular Practical Training. The "curricular" part is critical here - you can only use CPT if 2 conditions are fulfilled: (1) you are enrolled in your program full-time, be it BS, MS or PhD, and (2) your program of study requires such an employment as a part of the curriculum. In your case, unless I'm reading your situation wrong, you don't satisfy condition 1. So, that's why JoeF is warning you about abuse of CPT. If you try to use CPT without being enrolled in a program of study, that's against USCIS rules. If caught, you can be deported.

 

Excellent description of CPT employment authorization, for which there is a fair bit of misinformation / misinterpretation / misunderstanding.  With respect to the 2nd condition, being part of the required curriculum means that such employment needs to be explicitly and specifically stated as an integral part of the degree program in the university / college documentation, e.g. in the published course description.

[t75]

If you do not want to study and do not have an existing H1B, go home and return only when you have a sponsor and valid approval notice.

[maverickp]

@JoeF, @catx: True, that actual completely-honest-by-the-book CPT is rare, but most univs do have a work-around. That is, if your univ offers a course, even if it's for 1 credit, that keeps you in status, and that is for something like an internship/practicum, and if it is counted towards your degree, then it suffices condition 2. And that's what most people do, it isn't illegal in any way, and if the school issues you a CPT I-20 in lieu for paying money and registering for any such course, FWIK you're good to go. In such a situation, JoeF, I believe it's perfectly legal to work with any arbitrary employer, as long as you have an I-20 issued on that employer's name, valid for CPT, in which case the approval of USCIS is implicitly assumed :) catx, you're right. The problem arises if the univ doesn't have a course for an internship/practicum in the course catalog, but most do, these days, even if it's a one credit or a three credit course, and as long as the univ course catalog does have that, it's valid, even though it's not a required course.

[JoeF]

Hmm, no, it still is not legal.

It has to be required for the course, and work with an arbitrary employer on some arbitrary stuff can by definition not be required for a course.

And fake courses are only done by shady universities.

Remember TVU? They issued CPTs, for work at 7-Eleven, for work as security guard, etc. This stuff is very obviously not legal.

[catx]

The problem arises if the univ doesn't have a course for an internship/practicum in the course catalog, but most do, these days, even if it's a one credit or a three credit course, and as long as the univ course catalog does have that, it's valid, even though it's not a required course.

 

You are correct that an internship / practicum course is often what is used for CPT employment authorization, and such courses are at most a recommended part of a degree plan (rarely a required part).  For approval by the university / college the internship / practicum course requirements are typically a job in your field of study and approval by a supervising professor (both of which can be lax).  In a true internship / practicum course there is also a requirement for writing and submitting a report / research paper (+/- work journal), which is what is used by the supervising professor to grade the course.

 

The issue is that this is one course, for one semester or maybe a year (2 semesters), worth up to 3 credit hours per semester.  That requires another 6 credit hours per semester to be a full-time student (assuming a graduate degree), so the internship / practicum course is for part-time work.  There are also internship / practicum courses for full-time work over the summer.  Regardless, an internship / practicum course is not for on-going, full-time work.  Unfortunately all too many people on CPT employment authorization are working full-time on an on-going basis.

[maverickp]

Yeah, unfortunately, most of us know cases like TVU only too well, because of the issues they have caused for the rest of us. But I see what you both are saying. I'm not encouraging or supporting that practice in any way, just saying what many of them do, which in some cases can be legal (for example, in the summer, when full-time employment is legal, but not before/after that). By the way, forgot to mention this earlier, I'd written my earlier post with a view on summer semester, when it is perfectly legal to work 40 hrs/wk on CPT, but I completely forgot how people bend or even break the rules to work full-time in spring/fall, which is definitely illegal. So, thanks for the reminder/correction :)

[JoeF]

Yeah, unfortunately, most of us know cases like TVU only too well, because of the issues they have caused for the rest of us. But I see what you both are saying. I'm not encouraging or supporting that practice in any way, just saying what many of them do, which in some cases can be legal (for example, in the summer, when full-time employment is legal, but not before/after that). By the way, forgot to mention this earlier, I'd written my earlier post with a view on summer semester, when it is perfectly legal to work 40 hrs/wk on CPT, but I completely forgot how people bend or even break the rules to work full-time in spring/fall, which is definitely illegal. So, thanks for the reminder/correction :)

Actually, summer internships usually should be done with pre-completion OPT, unless the internship is required for a class.

Most summer internships are not required, so CPT can not be used for that.

That's what pre-completion OPT is for.