Indian citizenship for US born kid

[cap-gap]

If you don't like that, there's the door...

 

the above statement is contradicting to your other arguments.

 

isn't the whole discussion about some one walking out thru that door and outta of USA?

[tusharvk]

Yes what he is saying is that you do not like the law there's the door. But your US born child is never going to be able to get out.

[JoeF]

Huh?

The US-born child can of course travel all over the world, with a US passport.

And even with passports of the country of the parents, if such countries allow dual citizenship (which most do.) The child just would have to use a US passport to leave and enter the US.

I have known people with 3 citizenships by birth, one from father and mother each (who were of different nationality), and one from the country of birth.

That's the reality in today's world.

You are welcome to stay in the 19th Century. Everybody else is happy in the 21st Century.

[tusharvk]

Huh?

The US-born child can of course travel all over the world, with a US passport.

And even with passports of the country of the parents, if such countries allow dual citizenship (which most do.) The child just would have to use a US passport to leave and enter the US.

I have known people with 3 citizenships by birth, one from father and mother each (who were of different nationality), and one from the country of birth.

That's the reality in today's world.

You are welcome to stay in the 19th Century. Everybody else is happy in the 21st Century.

side stepping the issues again.

India and China do not allow multiple citizenship. So why are you talking about 3 citizenship now?

[cap-gap]

 

You are welcome to stay in the 19th Century. Everybody else is happy in the 21st Century.

 

i avoided taking your bait to distract the discussion as tushark requested to keep the discussion focussed on point..well, until now..

 

with regards to your remark above..it was India who introduced globalization concept to the world..the first ever stock certificate was issued in London for a company called East india compnay to do trading alllowed by India, in India, (only to be backstabbed by the western world later and learn a good lesson, different story)

 

And this so called dual citizenship is plain ridiculous, given that it is USA that is at war with two different nations at any give time since WWII..speak of the trustworthiness of "these dual citizens"..

 

Also, a naturalized US citizen is still a second class citizen, not eligible to run for president...on the other hand a naturilized Indian citizen does not face such discrimination..

 

India was one of the only few economies that did not need bailouts during recent global recession..

[JoeF]

i avoided taking your bait to distract the discussion as tushark requested to keep the discussion focussed on point..well, until now..

 

with regards to your remark above..it was India who introduced globalization concept to the world..the first ever stock certificate was issued in London for a company called East india compnay to do trading alllowed by India, in India, (only to be backstabbed by the western world later and learn a good lesson, different story)

 

And this so called dual citizenship is plain ridiculous, given that it is USA that is at war with two different nations at any give time since WWII..speak of the trustworthiness of "these dual citizens"..

 

Also, a naturalized US citizen is still a second class citizen, not eligible to run for president...on the other hand a naturilized Indian citizen does not face such discrimination..

 

India was one of the only few economies that did not need bailouts during recent global recession..

What you think is ridiculous is irrelevant.

The US has had the 14th Amendment in the Constitution for a LONG LONG time.

Get used to it.

The issue is VERY simple: If you don't want your child to be a US citizen, have the birth outside the US.

If the child is born in the US, the child is a US citizen. Period. End of story.

A CHILD BORN IN THE US IS A US CITIZEN!

Period. No but or if. End of story.

That's all there is to it.

What other countries think or do is completely irrelevant or this.

As per the US Constitution, a child born in the US is a US citizen. No but or if.

[JoeF]

Oh, and ranting about bailout or who can become President or other such stuff is of course also completely irrelevant.

Only people who have no arguments go ranting about something completely unrelated.

If you want to live in the US, you simply have to accept the US rules. If you are not willing to accept the US rules, then just don't come here.

Nobody forces you to live in the US. Nobody forces you to have your child in the US.

But IF you want to have your child in the US, then you have to accept the fact that the child will be a US citizen. That's all there is to it. It really isn't hard.

 

[tusharvk]

JoeF can kindly answer the issues I have raised. These are not some hypothetical.points but can happen.

We can deal with the issues within the gambit of the current laws; it is ok to say we do not know if that is the case.

Some other experts can still comment on these points as no single person is omniscient.

 

Merely pasting the same text over and over again and passing judgment regarding India's laws would not serve any purpose. Please refrain from doing that. You may get the thread locked. Instead let us say these issues are open and in time we will learn of cases\anecdotes and the issues will get resolved.

[JoeF]

JoeF can kindly answer the issues I have raised. These are not some hypothetical.points but can happen.

There are NO issues.

A child born in the US IS a US citizen!

Get that into your head.

That is ALL there is to it.

There are NO issues. Period.

The only things that "can happen" are things that can happen to every other US citizen.

Per the US Constitution, a child born in the US is a US citizen. It is hot that hard to understand. No other country is involved in that. It is completely irrelevant what some other country thinks. The US says the child is a US citizen, and the US has certain rules about what documents a US citizen has to carry when leaving or entering the US.

That is ALL there is to it. No other country is even involved.

 

Please read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

"Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."

This was enacted on July 9, 1868.

You are over 150 years late to complain about it.

 

[tusharvk]

There are NO issues.

A child born in the US IS a US citizen!

at birth that is correct.

 

But you have skirted again the other issues.

If you do not know, please do not paste the same text over and over again.

[mnm0710]

I will throw in my 2 cents here.  Too much ranting and repeating going on that I simply skipped

 

Here's something from the state department regarding minors revoking their citizenship, and when former U.S citizens need visas to travel back, etc.

 

http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_776.html

 

F. RENUNCIATION FOR MINOR CHILDREN/INCOMPETENTS

Citizenship is a status that is personal to the U.S. citizen.  Therefore, parents may not renounce the citizenship of their minor children.  Similarly, parents/legal guardians may not renounce the citizenship of individuals who are mentally incompetent.  Minors seeking to renounce their U.S. citizenship must demonstrate to a consular officer that they are acting voluntarily and that they fully understand the implications/consequences attendant to the renunciation of U.S. citizenship.

 

D. DUAL NATIONALITY / STATELESSNESS

Persons intending to renounce U.S. citizenship should be aware that, unless they already possess a foreign nationality, they may be rendered stateless and, thus, lack the protection of any government. They may also have difficulty traveling as they may not be entitled to a passport from any country. Even if not stateless, former U.S. citizens would still be required to obtain a visa to travel to the United States, or show that they are eligible for admission pursuant to the terms of the Visa Waiver Pilot Program (VWPP).  Nonetheless, renunciation of U.S. citizenship may not prevent a foreign country from deporting that individual to the United States in some non-citizen status.

[JoeF]

Yup. I referred to that site before, in particular the section about the parents not being allowed to renounce the citizenship of their minor children.

It is as clear as it can be, and there is no more discussion needed about it.

[tusharvk]

I see the link. But that does not answer the question regarding what happens if the parents apply foreign passport for their US born child and that is all they apply.

The country issuing the foreign passport does not allow the child to hold US passport.

 

Then will the child be denied entry to US? visa stamp at consulate?

 

Those questions are not answered unfortunately. and what about cases where these events have occurred?

[JoeF]

I see the link. But that does not answer the question regarding what happens if the parents apply foreign passport for their US born child and that is all they apply.

The country issuing the foreign passport does not allow the child to hold US passport.

You are still not getting it, do you?

A foreign country can NOT prohibit the child from having a US passport.

The child IS a US citizen and 100% NEEDS a US passport to leave and enter the US.

What some foreign government thinks is IRRELEVANT!

The child IS a US citizen and NEEDS a US passport. Period. End of story.

There is NO problem. Everybody knows this, and parents who wish to travel abroad with a US citizen child DO get a US passport for the child.

 

[JoeF]

Oh, and at US land borders, a passport, passport card, NEXUS card, or FAST card is required, since 2009.

Before that, US citizens going to Tijuana, for example, just needed their DL. Not anymore.

[tusharvk]

There is NO problem. Everybody knows this, and parents who wish to travel abroad with a US citizen child DO get a US passport for the child.

 

 

It is a big problem especially if the foreign citizen parents decide to live in their homeland (that does not recognize dual citizenship) with their child and make trips to the US once in a while.

Generalized statements people make from a sample size of 0?

Proving everyone is doing this is extremely hard; only one case to the contrary needs to be found.

To make it easier, please cite one case where the child showed up at US consulate with foreign passport and sought US visa and was denied.

or a case which shows the US citizen was denied entry at a US POE for showing up without US passport.  It is very hard to do this and till then this point is going to remain disputed.

[chakrakr]

Here are some info from CBP ....

 

http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/travel/id_visa/legally_admitted_to_the_u_s.xml   

 

 

"U.S. and Canadian citizen children under age 16 arriving by land or sea from contiguous territory may also present an original or copy of his or her birth certificate, a Consular Report of Birth Abroad or a Canadian Citizenship Card."

[tusharvk]

Also, from a practical perspective, why is Indian consulate allowing a US born child's parents to apply for Indian passport?

India does not allow dual citizenship and surrendering indian passport is requirement upon acquiring USC by naturalization.

Why is USC by birth treated differently by Indian consulate?

If the situation is reversed and child gets born to USC parents in India, US consulate in India will probably do the same and issue the child a US passport. They will not require the child to get Indian passport and ask the parents to apply for a visa.

[tusharvk]

Here are some info from CBP ....

 

http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/travel/id_visa/legally_admitted_to_the_u_s.xml   

 

 

"U.S. and Canadian citizen children under age 16 arriving by land or sea from contiguous territory may also present an original or copy of his or her birth certificate, a Consular Report of Birth Abroad or a Canadian Citizenship Card."

So, the US born child can hold a foreign passport and show up at a land POE with a US birth certificate and ask for admission into the US.  can s\he?

[JoeF]

It is a big problem especially if the foreign citizen parents decide to live in their homeland.

Then they should make sure that the child isn't born in the US.

It is REALLY SIMPLE. There are 9 months to decide on that.

So, once again, there is NO problem.

Case closed.

[JoeF]

Here are some info from CBP ....

 

http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/travel/id_visa/legally_admitted_to_the_u_s.xml   

 

 

"U.S. and Canadian citizen children under age 16 arriving by land or sea from contiguous territory may also present an original or copy of his or her birth certificate, a Consular Report of Birth Abroad or a Canadian Citizenship Card."

It still doesn't make any difference, because this only applies to people who travel to Canada or Mexico and don't go somewhere else from there, or come back from somewhere else.

That's the "arriving from contiguous territory" thing.

And it's only for children under 16.

 

The bottom line is still: the child needs to get a US passport.

[tusharvk]

Then they should make sure that the child isn't born in the US.

It is REALLY SIMPLE. There are 9 months to decide on that.

So, once again, there is NO problem.

Case closed.

not a practical solution. When you got one, we can discuss it.

Difference between paper law and practical interpretation of the same is vast.

[JoeF]

Also, from a practical perspective, why is Indian consulate allowing a US born child's parents to apply for Indian passport?

You would have to ask them.

A US-born child needs a US passport to travel. Period.

What some foreign country's consulate does is irrelevant.

[JoeF]

not a practical solution. When you got one, we can discuss it.

The VERY practical solution is to get a US passport for the child.

Very easy, very practical. If the parents don't want the child to be a US citizen, they need to have the birth abroad. If they think that's "not practical", they should not have come to the US AT all. Nobody forced them to come here.

Having your cake and eating it too is not possible.

[chakrakr]

It still doesn't make any difference, because this only applies to people who travel to Canada or Mexico and don't go somewhere else from there, or come back from somewhere else.

That's the "arriving from contiguous territory" thing.

And it's only for children under 16.

 

The bottom line is still: the child needs to get a US passport.

 

The CBP link does not say "don't go somewhere else from there, or come back from somewhere else.".    So a USC child not having a US Passport ,  can come to Canada on a Canadian Visa  and enter US through land using the US Birth Certificate .   Agreed,  not a clean solution but technically possible.

 

Also  agreed it is only for children under 16  but are not we discussing about children in this thread ??