H1-B Denied in Hyderabad

[livingwater]

@JoeF,

I was not asked to withdraw my petition first of all . If i were i would have done that. There is no reason for suspicion. Previous H1is gone. Let USCIS decide on that. You assume many things about others. Try to understand others points also. I clearly mentioned that i got an offer from direct client. I have no intent to work for previous employer. Why do you think that everybody is in genuine and consultant can not get job with direct client? I have seen responses from you on this thread.

[tejalks]

@ Livingwater,

I was following your posts since some time, as my situation is also like yours - with case being sent back to USCIS. It is indeed a sad thing that again you have landed with a 221g. I totally agree with you that it doesnt matter if you are a direct hire, EC or EVC model employee - you are just given 221g randomly.

Looking at all the 2nd time 221g experiences (i.e after case being sent back to USCIS, new H1 filed & again 221g), I am wondering if the best option for me would be to wait till the USCIS sends the decision or think of applying new H1 through another employer.

This was a direct hire for you this time, did the VO mention any reasons for 221g ? Were any documents requested from you ? Also you mentioned that you received the denial letter, was it again same format as the previous one ? Has your case been sent back to USCIS again ?

I know these are a lot of questions, but trying to gain some insight as to why a 221g with a direct hire too.

I hope this ordeal ends soon for you & you can hear from the USCIS soon.

Regards,

Tejal.

[gogokool]

They are not "abusing their powers." Since you didn't even want to withdraw the EVC H1, the suspicion that they probably have is that you would be going back to the employer in the EVC case and that you are just abusing the system by getting the vendor and end client to do you a favor.

And the attitude of "it is their fault" doesn't help, either. It is always the others, never you... Always blaming somebody else...

@JoeF

They are NOT meant to take decisions on suspicions. They have to make decisions on proven facts. If theres a suspicion they have to ensure its a fact before refusing.

This applies to any entity be it USCIS, Consulates, Indian offices or anything. Some of us are debating that it to be fair and efficient process. Hope you get the point.

[JoeF]

@JoeF,

I was not asked to withdraw my petition first of all . If i were i would have done that.

Hmm, you said "I was forced to withdraw petition by VO but i did not do that."

That's what I based my answer on.

If that's not what you meant to say, then please formulate your posts appropriately.

[livingwater]

@JoeF , That was the first petition . When i went for second time after 7 months I was not interviewed by same VO.

So he never bothered about my first petition and did not ask me to withdraw previous petition. I hope that is clear

[tejalks]

@ living water - could you please read my post above & respond to it. Thanks.

[JoeF]

@JoeF , That was the first petition . When i went for second time after 7 months I was not interviewed by same VO.

So he never bothered about my first petition and did not ask me to withdraw previous petition. I hope that is clear

It seems you still don't get it.

All the info on your first petition is of course still in the file, including your refusal to withdraw it. That's enough to draw suspicion.

They can see everything you ever applied for.

I hope that is clear now...

[JoeF]

@JoeF

They are NOT meant to take decisions on suspicions. They have to make decisions on proven facts.

And that is written down where exactly?

They have discretionary powers, and they can make decisions based on suspicions.

It is up to the applicant to show his case so that there are no suspicions.

[h1b321]

Hey h1b321,

Even though what you say is theoretically correct, it won't work in the real world. You are being naive. You suggest that they shouldn't surprise people during visa stamping. USCIS being strict during visa stamping is intentional. And let me tell you why, take this scenario, if USCIS denies someone's H1B extension, what would he do next? Will he just pack his bags and leave the country, leave his house, car? NO he will file again for H1B probably through another employer. Let's say that also is denied. Will he pack his bags? No, he will try to change his status F1, H4 etc or maybe even stay over out of status. 90% people would do this. So this would create unnecessary illegals, complications.

So what do you think USCIS would do to avoid this situation and maintain the process? They will be lenient while processing H1Bs but they will make him go outside the country for visa stamping, COS etc. Once the person is out of the country, they can be as strict as possible as the person now can't come in and stay over even when they reject the visa.

Secondly, you said they should make it easier for consultants, staffing companies etc. Well you can't blame USCIS for anything since it's all supply and demand. In the late 90s US needed a lot of IT professionals, so they relaxed the H1B process and GC process. Now IT is saturated and unemployment rate is very high. So things need to change, become more strict. There is no right or wrong, it depends on the times. Deal with it.

Hey !

First of all I am cognizant of all the options available to be in status. I feel there is nothing wrong in trying to get a qualified employment and your words remind me of people in their 1st yr of h1 (no offense). Once you have your 140 approved you cannot go on a "F" status, well at least till I last researched it was not a dual intent visa. Take a minute and think if the rules are consistent even thought the guy applies 100 times the results will be the same.

The USCIS is easy on the applications because they are funded to a major extent by these applications and have to keep it coming. On the other hand DHS is not, so they do not care at all.

@ staying illegal ?? common man ..,,, don't think like a fresher out of school ....there are plenty of opportunities in the world and Indian market is also booming ...no person with a good vision will do that ...

Now second point where did you get the idea that there is low demand in the skilled class ?? Please do some research and you will be surprised ...not even 1-2 % unemployment rate in the skilled class.....how many of your friends who are skilled are looking for a job ?? by skilled I mean who are above average .......

When a case takes 15 days - 6 months to get approved in the USCIS, and in the consulate it gets blown off in 2 - 10 mins ?? ...this does not make sense !!!

[h1b321]

@JoeF They are NOT meant to take decisions on suspicions. They have to make decisions on proven facts. If theres a suspicion they have to ensure its a fact before refusing. This applies to any entity be it USCIS, Consulates, Indian offices or anything. Some of us are debating that it to be fair and efficient process. Hope you get the point.

totally agreed. PPL cannot be stereo type when reviewing applications or one day just by looking at Indians they will reject the application (assuming he works for a shady desi company).

[JoeF]

totally agreed. PPL cannot be stereo type when reviewing applications or one day just by looking at Indians they will reject the application (assuming he works for a shady desi company).

They can. It would be up to the applicant to show that the applicant isn't doing anything shady.

The officers have the discretionary powers to deny applications for lots of reasons, including suspicion of attempted fraud.

There is no right to a visa, even if you don't like that... You are a foreigner. The US has the right to not let foreigners into the country, for any reason. Just as your country has the right to not let foreigners in if they don't want them in.

[JoeF]

@ staying illegal ?? common man ..,,, don't think like a fresher out of school ....there are plenty of opportunities in the world and Indian market is also booming ...no person with a good vision will do that ...

So, why are you then oh so focused on the US?

If the US doesn't want to give you an H1, find a job somewhere outside the US. You claim that it is easy, so, put your money where your mouth is...

[AxialTilt]

@livingwater, I agree with JoeF, you clearly stated that you were not willing to withdraw your first petition and that was a strong enough reason for a denial the second time

[livingwater]

It seems you still don't get it.

All the info on your first petition is of course still in the file, including your refusal to withdraw it. That's enough to draw suspicion.

They can see everything you ever applied for.

I hope that is clear now...

@ JoeF , They see it then let them see. I am not doing anything suspicious. I dont have FAM with me and I dont need to learn laws to withdraw my previous petition .Its DOS job to advise me if i am not aware. I think its like i have to learn more about H1B visa then actual job or technology i am working on. You should learn to put yourself in others shoes. You argue with everyone and prove that DOS is doing right thing. Do you have guts to write to DOS reg the same ?

[dream16]

A simple answer to the above question is the $ making model: Desi Hire somebody for 30$ c2c and vendor earns 90$/hr on him and pays the desi employer 40$c2c. Top to bottom: Everybody eats ! EVC can never die

[JoeF]

A simple answer to the above question is the $ making model: Desi Hire somebody for 30$ c2c and vendor earns 90$/hr on him and pays the desi employer 40$c2c. Top to bottom: Everybody eats ! EVC can never die

First: the employee has to get paid the prevailing wage.

Second: Why would a client pay just to feed all the vendors in between? Doesn't make economic sense.

The bottom line: something is likely fishy in an EVC model. Either the employee doesn't get paid the prevailing wage (illegal) or the client pays too much (doesn't make economic sense for the client.)

[JoeF]

You should learn to put yourself in others shoes.

I do. That's why I know that EVC is nonsense. It doesn't make economic sense. No client would pay more to "feed all the vendors in-between".

And I put myself in the shoes of people who have genuine employers, and who don't get H1s because of the abuse of the H1 by way to many people, e.g., in EVC models.

You argue with everyone and prove that DOS is doing right thing. Do you have guts to write to DOS reg the same ?

LOL. I state things as they are. If you don't like it, tough luck. Things don't change because you don't like them.

The law is the law is the law. And yes, if you think the consular officers do something wrong, then you would have to look at the law, and the FAM to prove it. Anything else is just arrogant entitlement BS. There is no right to a visa.

[kingvijay]

If people don't understand the economic reality of EVC model, they have not been very tuned to how IT consulting works.

For most clients, it makes good economic sense to deal with only a few select vendors even if it means a 10 or 20 extra dollars per hour. And those few select vendors rarely ever have quality talent on the payrolls to satisfy the client's needs, and they naturally end up outsourcing to smaller firms, that are usually not based in the same city.

Most big or small clients deal with only 10 or 20 vendors at most and these 10 or 20 firms hardly have people on their payrolls who are available and satisfy the skill set. If you are all for killing the EVC model, without allowing for higher mobility of H1B workers, you are unintentionally rooting for the demise of consulting industry for H1B workers.

And for those who think, quality talent doesn't work on EVC model, get a reality check.

[livingwater]

@livingwater, I agree with JoeF, you clearly stated that you were not willing to withdraw your first petition and that was a strong enough reason for a denial the second time

@northest.bobby.

Dont gossip here.

Why should i withdraw my petition in first place without submitting any documents? On what basis should i withdraw my petition? Why would my employer's attorney contact consulate if employer is not genuine?

[livingwater]

I do. That's why I know that EVC is nonsense. It doesn't make economic sense. No client would pay more to "feed all the vendors in-between".

And I put myself in the shoes of people who have genuine employers, and who don't get H1s because of the abuse of the H1 by way to many people, e.g., in EVC models.

LOL. I state things as they are. If you don't like it, tough luck. Things don't change because you don't like them.

The law is the law is the law. And yes, if you think the consular officers do something wrong, then you would have to look at the law, and the FAM to prove it. Anything else is just arrogant entitlement BS. There is no right to a visa.

@JoeF

Looks like this your full time job. Do you work anywhere? or just browse through all forums to throw your BS insight on each and every topic. Your words dont impress anyone. Tough luck with your life on the earth

[JoeF]

If people don't understand the economic reality of EVC model, they have not been very tuned to how IT consulting works.

And if people don't understand that the EVC model doesn't make economic sense, they have not been very tuned to economics.

For most clients, it makes good economic sense to deal with only a few select vendors

And? What would prevent these select vendors to hire people directly, i.e., an EC model?

And those few select vendors rarely ever have quality talent on the payrolls to satisfy the client's needs

Why not? They can hire the talent.

and they naturally end up outsourcing to smaller firms

Why would they? They can hire the talent themselves. Again, it does not make economic sense to pay some other employer. Why wouldn't these vendors keep the "10 or 20 dollars per hour" to themselves?

It is obvious to anybody who has economic knowledge that the EVC model does not make any sense.

And other industries know that quite well. There is no EVC model in other industries.

In the IT industry, this EVC model only exists because the people actually doing the work probably don't get paid the prevailing wage.

And for those who think, quality talent doesn't work on EVC model, get a reality check.

Yes, your post shows quite nicely that there is no quality talent working in the EVC model.

Why would you work in an EVC model if you could get "10 or 20 dollars more per hour" if the client is paying that already? The only rational reason is that you wouldn't get hired by the client...

The bottom line: something is likely fishy in an EVC model. Either the employee doesn't get paid the prevailing wage (illegal) or the client pays too much (doesn't make economic sense for the client.) Take your pick. And obviously, the US government has realized the same thing... EVC is dead.