Immigration Reform

[Desi Dude]

No you cannot blame Indian IT counterparts for the mess because they followed the process and did everything legally. You always try to deceive by ignoring the illegal part in your arguments.

 

Also you always call illegals as undocumented. By your definition, I would be an undocumented doctor as I know a lot about medicines but I don't have a certificate. Should I be allowed to do surgery as an undocumented surgeon? That would be illegal and I would be in jail. Do you get the difference now. Please stop calling them undocumented and diluting their offense.

 

And you keep talking about uniting families. The illegals leave their family and their country, so who is dividing the family? If I leave my family, is it your job to unite my family with me or is it my responsibility. Stop using these sympathetic sob stories.

 

The illegals just want to combine their agenda with the legals so their case looks genuine and they get all the sympathy which actually legals deserve. We have nothing in common with illegals.

[maverick41]

What do you propose we do? A separate legal immigration reform process? HR 3012 - Fairness for High Skilled Immigrants Act failed and the STEM Jobs act has almost no chance of getting enacted.

 

You should take political realities into consideration and realize that citizens of this country are not going to be overly sympathetic towards foreigners with good jobs in this economy complaining that they have to wait longer in line. I have said this before- the only reason you find this new found love for legal immigrants by some politicians is because the issue of illegal immigration was brought before them and they don't want to appear xenophobic.

 

The truth is Catholic nuns riding buses "Nuns on the Bus" - "the raise your hands, raise your voice for CIR campaign" and other Christian groups (e.g. Natl. Association of Evangelicals) pushing for immigration reform along with large Latino interest groups have more of an impact on Congressional leaders then a few well heeled legal immigrants making a case for faster green cards. 

[t75]

If someone does not  like US immigration laws and procedures, they should look elsewhere. Otherwise, QYB.

 

Not only to potential immigrants (both legal and illegal) have "issues" with the process but also USCs who believe their legitimate concerns are being ignored by their elected officials and who are tired of being berated by foreign nationals seeking to come to the US.

[Desi Dude]

The solution is to have a piecemeal approach to Legal Immigration. Small bills should be introduced to fix it.

 

HR 3012 and HR 633 failed because the Democrats did not want a separate bill for legals, they wanted to combine everything into one huge comprehensive bill. Its almost as if Dems are against legal immigration and for illegals. You can do your own research and see how many and what kind of bills were proposed by both parties on legal immigration. There is NONE by democrats !!!!

 

These facts are carefully hidden by the media. Why arent we questioning the Senators who voted against these bills?

[maverick41]

Well looks like we are having a healthy discussion :)

 

HR3012 failed because of the delay tactics by Chuck Grassley a Republican who placed a hold initially and special interest groups who saw this bill as one benefiting only Indians and not EB applicants from the rest of the world (ROW). The fact is anytime the EB numerical limitations issue is raised people from ROW cry fowl. So that's not going anywhere.

 

@ Desi Dude. I agree with you on the piecemeal approach. A piecemeal approach may be what Congress decides to do in the end. Passing 1) the DREAM Act and 2) Implementing the Merit based/Point based green card EB system (would fast track the process for those with pending EB GC applications) part of S.744 would be a good starting point and a compromise. We will just have wait and watch what happens.

 

@t75. I'm sorry to hear that you feel that foreign nationals are berating you but I do hope that it's just a minority. The majority of us are only looking for ways to contribute and make the US a better country not just for ourselves but for others too. 

[Desi Dude]

You are doing it again. Why are you clubbing DREAM act with Legal Immigration reform? What do legals have to do with DREAM Act??? Those guys have their own huge lobby much larger than legals have.

 

As I have proposed before - Immigration should be point based and it should be tied to unemployment ratio.

[maverick41]

So lets take your unilateral approach of a merit-based/point based immigration system. Who would champion that? Indians? Merit based immigration won't have a huge impact on EB applicants from ROW. The status quo suits most ROW applicants just fine. Plus as you already know there is a fast track/EB1 process for Indians with extraordinary ability.

 

I'm not a supporter of the EB categories and numerical limitations myself and feel it's flawed in many ways but do realize that for Congress to make any changes we need the major backing from several interest groups. Going it alone on immigration is not going to work. It's not worked in the past and won't work in the future. Even a piecemeal approach would require the support of all immigrant groups. 

 

There is a reason why advocacy groups like fwd.us (backed by Mark Zuckerberg and others) are taking a multi-pronged approach to immigration reform by backing issues like 1) Securing borders 2) Strengthening our families & economy 3) Providing a pathway for citizenship to undocumented workers and 4) Promoting E-verify

[Desi Dude]

The issues you mentioned being taken up by advocacy groups and billionaires are an eye wash, they are 'creating' these 'issues'. Secondly, Zuckerberg and Democrats are only interested in helping illegals, they are not doing anything for legals like us.

 

Let me explain each one of them since you mentioned them.

 

1) Securing Borders was already passed during the Reagan and Bush Governments. Nothing happened. Its already been passed and funding provided. They just dont want to implement it for political purposes.

 

2) Your second point doesn't make sense, how is it related to immigration? This is just to rile emotions. Its similar to their speech on 'Uniting Families'. Hey you know what, what about uniting families of legal immigrants, we also want our parents and cousins to come to US and get Green Card. Why don't they try to 'Unite' us?

 

3) Your third point is direct amnesty. It's like if a person robs a bank and says he did it so he can get 5 million dollars for his family. And then as a punishment he's given 5 million dollars !!!!! So the illegals will be given exactly what they broke the law for !!! Do you see the irony? And again, stop calling them undocumented, otherwise I should be an Undocumented Lawyer !!

 

4) E-Verify is always a law. All the necessary laws are on the books. They just don't want to implement them, to get votes.

[hornofgondor]

The issues you mentioned being taken up by advocacy groups and billionaires are an eye wash, they are 'creating' these 'issues'. Secondly, Zuckerberg and Democrats are only interested in helping illegals, they are not doing anything for legals like us.

 

Let me explain each one of them since you mentioned them.

 

1) Securing Borders was already passed during the Reagan and Bush Governments. Nothing happened. Its already been passed and funding provided. They just dont want to implement it for political purposes.

 

2) Your second point doesn't make sense, how is it related to immigration? This is just to rile emotions. Its similar to their speech on 'Uniting Families'. Hey you know what, what about uniting families of legal immigrants, we also want our parents and cousins to come to US and get Green Card. Why don't they try to 'Unite' us?

 

3) Your third point is direct amnesty. It's like if a person robs a bank and says he did it so he can get 5 million dollars for his family. And then as a punishment he's given 5 million dollars !!!!! So the illegals will be given exactly what they broke the law for !!! Do you see the irony? And again, stop calling them undocumented, otherwise I should be an Undocumented Lawyer !!

 

4) E-Verify is always a law. All the necessary laws are on the books. They just don't want to implement them, to get votes.

 

First thing: I am not a supporter of illegal immigration.

 

But, you will have to consider the geopolitical realities. It is just wishful thinking to assume that congress will act upon the legal component of immigration reform. Not going to happen. Only reason is we do not have enough numbers to change the electoral face of the US.

 

Your comparison of bank robbery with undocumented immigrants is totally flawed. Bank robbery is a criminal offense whereas illegal immigration is a civil offense. You are just comparing apples with oranges.

[maverick41]

Op Ed NY Times- Sheldon Adelson, Warren Buffet and Bill Gates on Immigration Reform "Break the Immigration Impasse"

I pulled out a few interesting sections:

The three of us vary in our politics and would differ also in our preferences about the details of an immigration reform bill. But we could without doubt come together to draft a bill acceptable to each of us. We hope that fact holds a lesson: You don’t have to agree on everything in order to cooperate on matters about which you are reasonably close to agreement. It’s time that this brand of thinking finds its way to Washington.

We believe it borders on insanity to train intelligent and motivated people in our universities — often subsidizing their education — and then to deport them when they graduate. Many of these people, of course, want to return to their home country — and that’s fine. But for those who wish to stay and work in computer science or technology, fields badly in need of their services, let’s roll out the welcome mat.

A “talented graduate” reform was included in a bill that the Senate approved last year by a 68-to-32 vote. It would remove the worldwide cap on the number of visas that could be awarded to legal immigrants who had earned a graduate degree in science, technology, engineering or mathematics from an accredited institution of higher education in the United States, provided they had an offer of employment. The bill also included a sensible plan that would have allowed illegal residents to obtain citizenship, though only after they had earned the right to do so.

Americans are a forgiving and generous people, and who among us is not happy that their forebears — whatever their motivation or means of entry — made it to our soil?

For the future, the United States should take all steps to ensure that every prospective immigrant follows all rules and that people breaking these rules, including any facilitators, are severely punished. No one wants a replay of the present mess.

Whatever the precise provisions of a law, it’s time for the House to draft and pass a bill that reflects both our country’s humanity and its self-interest. Differences with the Senate should be hammered out by members of a conference committee, committed to a deal.

[Desi Dude]

All big business executives want more immigration (legal or illegal) because it brings down wages and increase the number of consumers, even when it is at the expense of the citizen.

 

All the rich elites want more immigration because it is easy to talk about 'everyone should be allowed and everyone should get everything' when you are sitting in a 10 million dollar mansion and nothing affects you. These elites don't use the hospitals , the public schools, the public parks, the court system that uncontrolled mass immigration will impact.

 

By the way, this is a false notion that America doesn't have enough IT people. There are more than enough. But these people want more so that they don't have to pay out more as salaries.

[rahul412]

By the way, this is a false notion that America doesn't have enough IT people. There are more than enough. But these people want more so that they don't have to pay out more as salaries.

Completely agree with you. For corporates, immigration reform= more profits for their organization. Not for the nation.

[nineballs]

All big business executives want more immigration (legal or illegal) because it brings down wages and increase the number of consumers, even when it is at the expense of the citizen.

 

All the rich elites want more immigration because it is easy to talk about 'everyone should be allowed and everyone should get everything' when you are sitting in a 10 million dollar mansion and nothing affects you. These elites don't use the hospitals , the public schools, the public parks, the court system that uncontrolled mass immigration will impact.

 

By the way, this is a false notion that America doesn't have enough IT people. There are more than enough. But these people want more so that they don't have to pay out more as salaries.

Are you against immigration? Your screen name suggests that you are an immigrant yourself. And, you can't speak for the whole IT industry. My company posted 5 new IT job openings, couldn't get any replies in 30 days, immigrant or citizen. we need specialized skills and really cant find it. It would be a blessing to get an immigrant to do these jobs.

[rahul412]

Are you against immigration? Your screen name suggests that you are an immigrant yourself. And, you can't speak for the whole IT industry. My company posted 5 new IT job openings, couldn't get any replies in 30 days, immigrant or citizen. we need specialized skills and really cant find it. It would be a blessing to get an immigrant to do these jobs.

Creating new rules will not solve the problem. First, enforce the existing rules,if it doesn't fix the problem then think about new making rules.

[Desi Dude]

Are you against immigration? Your screen name suggests that you are an immigrant yourself. And, you can't speak for the whole IT industry. My company posted 5 new IT job openings, couldn't get any replies in 30 days, immigrant or citizen. we need specialized skills and really cant find it. It would be a blessing to get an immigrant to do these jobs.

 

Firstly, dont get personal. I'm not talking about you, you don't talk about me. Talk about policies and facts.

 

I believe in CONTROLLED immigration. The way Canada and Australia does.

 

And your company's case is more the reason why we need Controlled immigration, we need very high skill people only. Currently 66% of the GCs are awarded to families irrespective of their skills. We are importing unskilled people.

[maverick41]

At the end of the day most of us want immigration reform to happen but blaming groups of immigrants or types of immigration applicants is not constructive. It's best to avoid the "us vs. them" mentality.  My good friend a full blood native American from the Pamunkey tribe (a Virginia based tribe) always has always something funny to say when there is a hue and cry made over illegal immigration. As potential immigrants ourselves who are we to judge? 

[Desi Dude]

I beg to differ. Most legal immigrants don't prefer reform for illegals.

 

Entering a country illegally is not immigration its a crime, just like entering someone home illegally is a crime. Immigration is how the legals do, respect the laws of the country you want to settle in and wait for your turn.

 

So stop clubbing them together. There is only one immigration here and that is legal, anything else is not immigration.

[rahul412]

And now MS cuts 18,000 jobs. The same company which said "we need more techies".

 

Bottom line: By cutting jobs they get more profits, and by this reform again they get more profits (taking the advtg of the competition).

[Desi Dude]

All big business executives want more immigration (legal or illegal) because it brings down wages and increase the number of consumers, even when it is at the expense of the citizen.

 

All the rich elites want more immigration because it is easy to talk about 'everyone should be allowed and everyone should get everything' when you are sitting in a 10 million dollar mansion and nothing affects you. These elites don't use the hospitals , the public schools, the public parks, the court system that uncontrolled mass immigration will impact.

 

By the way, this is a false notion that America doesn't have enough IT people. There are more than enough. But these people want more so that they don't have to pay out more as salaries.

 

 

Microsoft just proved my point !!!!!!!

 

Bill Gates sent a memo last week to increase immigration and the same week Microsoft laid off 18000 employees (largest layoff in Microsoft's history). Do you see the hypocrisy now?

 

Bis Business, elites and politicians want more uncontrolled immigration to get the wages down and increase their customers.

[JoeF]

And now MS cuts 18,000 jobs. The same company which said "we need more techies".

 

Bottom line: By cutting jobs they get more profits, and by this reform again they get more profits (taking the advtg of the competition).

 

Most of these jobs are not in the US.

Most of the job cuts are at the Nokia factories. That's not in the US. And these are not "techie" jobs, these are manufacturing jobs.

I know that the anti-H1 people try to connect this to Microsoft's H1 position, but that's just the anti-immigrants speaking.

[rahul412]

Most of these jobs are not in the US.

Most of the job cuts are at the Nokia factories. That's not in the US. And these are not "techie" jobs, these are manufacturing jobs.

I know that the anti-H1 people try to connect this to Microsoft's H1 position, but that's just the anti-immigrants speaking.

One of my friends is techie in Microsoft and he is loosing the job.

Nokia or Microsoft does it makes any difference here??

[rahul412]

Most of these jobs are not in the US.

Most of the job cuts are at the Nokia factories. That's not in the US. And these are not "techie" jobs, these are manufacturing jobs.

I know that the anti-H1 people try to connect this to Microsoft's H1 position, but that's just the anti-immigrants speaking.

You call it anti- immigrants, I call it corporate politics.

Don't you think that 85K H1's EVERY YEAR is sufficient??

[JoeF]

You call it anti- immigrants, I call it corporate politics.

Don't you think that 85K H1's EVERY YEAR is sufficient??

 

The MSlayoff stuff has absolutely NOTHING to do with any immigration-related issues. Please stop trying to connect these two.

The MS layoffs have to do with Microsoft's disastrous decade. They've missed out in the mobile world. Their phone system will be gone in a few years.

But again, that has absolutely nothing, nada, zero, to do with the number of H1s, or immigration reform. The H1 quota issue has to do with shady consulting companies, and with people trying to buy H1s, not with Microsoft.

[rahul412]

The MSlayoff stuff has absolutely NOTHING to do with any immigration-related issues. Please stop trying to connect these two.

The MS layoffs have to do with Microsoft's disastrous decade. They've missed out in the mobile world. Their phone system will be gone in a few years.

It complained that they doesn't have enough techies and now they lay off the techies. So their is no relation here??

I agree that it's their problem, but why they complain that they doesn't have enough technicians??

[rahul412]

 

But again, that has absolutely nothing, nada, zero, to do with the number of H1s, or immigration reform. The H1 quota issue has to do with shady consulting companies, and with people trying to buy H1s, not with Microsoft.

Indeed, and USCIS also knows this. Why they just enforce the existing rules?? Why new rules or Laws to enforce the existing ones??