Reform legal immigrants before reforming illegal immigration

[rahul412]

Getting them out of the shadow is good for them AND the US economy.

Good to US economy.

Can you elaborate this?

Does this country needs the people who paid taxes and will pay taxes in future or the people who evaded the taxes?

[rahul412]

You did not answer the question I raised. What will happen AFTER they make all the illegals legal? What will happen to the next million illegals who jump the fence?

US will run out of money. It's a straight forward answer.

[Illinois_Dude]

_{Sometimes I even wonder what is the point of going through all the paperwork F1- OPT- H1B- PERM- I140-... when at the end of the day you will be treated on par with a person who jumps over the fence..}

[phoenix2010]

Let's be happy for illegal immigrants, all we want is a reform to help even legal immigrants.

[Belle]

You did not answer the question I raised. What will happen AFTER they make all the illegals legal? What will happen to the next million illegals who jump the fence?

As you can see nobody wants to talk about that, not even you !!

No, actually, many people point out that if a workable guest worker program that provides pathways to permanent residence is not established, we should expect continued illegal immigration. Having a workable legal immigration system is in the best interest of all immigrant groups, however, it is rarely used as a point of consensus. Some people would rather compete against other immigrant groups than work together.

[chakrakr]

Forst point - total BS. Child on H4 will become a permanent resident in a few years, most likely before entering college. I know tons of them. The child who entered illegally will languish illlegally for years and will likely never fullfil their potential. Not everyone is lucky to enter just in time to be eligible for benefits (benefits that don't give them legal status, by the way) - most have aged out.

Second. Yes, you are right. Such is life. The way you are dealing with it is not helpful to you.

Your "few years" goes very well beyond 10 - 12 years , may be decades. See the post from rahul412 where he mentioned of someone who had to wait 18 years to get GC. And it is not an isolated case. EB3-India is in 2002 since ages . Consider someone who migrated with a 10 year old child in 2002 . One usually need to wait for a year or two before convincing employer to file a GC. So the child is 12 by than. Even a 10 year wait will take the child to 22 years . Can you see who is speaking BS ?

Your "tons" sure do not include any EB3 - India .

[Belle]

Your "few years" goes very well beyond 10 - 12 years , may be decades. See the post from rahul412 where he mentioned of someone who had to wait 18 years to get GC. And it is not an isolated case. EB3-India is in 2002 since ages . Consider someone who migrated with a 10 year old child in 2002 . One usually need to wait for a year or two before convincing employer to file a GC. So the child is 12 by than. Even a 10 year wait will take the child to 22 years . Can you see who is speaking BS ?

An anecdote is not a singular of data. The fact stands that the vast majority of legal immigrants become permanent residents, in less than 10 years. The fact stands that despite occasional relief those who came here illegally are not on their way to permanent residence, no matter whether they lived here for 10 years or 20. Period. Done. Fact.

You may foam at the mouth and stomp your feet all you want, but the fact that some EB immigrant had a hard time getting a green card does not mean that 10 million productive illegal immigrants need to be denied their pursuit of legal residence. You can either join them, or you can continue to wish poor on people who are worse off then you are.

[rahul412]

I agree with JoeF and Belle. Lets work with others and not against others.

WE ARE READY TO WORK WITH EACH OTHER.BUT FIRST TREAT ALL THE NON-IMMIGRANTS LEGALLY. I HAVE ALREADY MENTIONED EARLIER THAT THEIR IS BIG DIFFERENCE IN GETTING GC BY FOLLOWING THE RULES AND BY WITHOUT FOLLOWING THE RULES.

[rahul412]

_{Sometimes I even wonder what is the point of going through all the paperwork F1- OPT- H1B- PERM- I140-... when at the end of the day you will be treated on par with a person who jumps over the fence..}

All these papers can be treated as 'toilet papers' created by a diploma mill called 'USCIS'. Of course ,used by the fools called 'legal immigrants'

[chakrakr]

Keep on talking like that and nobody will ever help you.

Did anybody help till now ? I must have missed !

[rahul412]

These people are exploited. Getting them out of the shadow is good for them AND the US economy.

Exploited? No, they have been used.

You know more than me, what kind of jobs they do here for living.

[tusharvk]

you are right: aging out of h4 children is an issue. So, this would have to be raised during the CIR legislation debate (whenever that occurs).

Proposed fixes would be: as long as 485 was filed before aging out, green card should be granted if the PD is not current.

[deb1975]

An anecdote is not a singular of data. The fact stands that the vast majority of legal immigrants become permanent residents, in less than 10 years. The fact stands that despite occasional relief those who came here illegally are not on their way to permanent residence, no matter whether they lived here for 10 years or 20. Period. Done. Fact.

You may foam at the mouth and stomp your feet all you want, but the fact that some EB immigrant had a hard time getting a green card does not mean that 10 million productive illegal immigrants need to be denied their pursuit of legal residence. You can either join them, or you can continue to wish poor on people who are worse off then you are.

Why would any "illegal" immigrant be considered before legal immigrant? The torch bearers of law like JoeF and you always seem to preaching about what is legal and not legal and how everyone should be following the law. Like JoeF always clearly points out that our visting parents are not allowed to help in any household work like even occassional cooking as that is NOT legal (I know they should hire an illegal instead) but when it comes to "illegals" it is perfectly okay to grant them permanent residency? Shouldn't they just be deported as they clearly broke the law???

[chakrakr]

An anecdote is not a singular of data. The fact stands that the vast majority of legal immigrants become permanent residents, in less than 10 years.

And how exactly ? As of Today, the PD for EB3-India is 01 NOV 2002. That means a person who filed his Labor on 01 NOV 2012 can file 485 (NOT get it approved) after 10 years. Add to it the wait time during Advertisment process (before Labor), the time it takes to convince employer after landing in US , and time will easily go to 12 years just to file 485 , if not more. Do you know basic arithmatic ?

Oh! I just remember -- you were the one who predicted EB2-India will be current in no time and all visa overflow will go to EB3-India making it current. Eb2 India is now at 2004 :)

The fact stands that despite occasional relief those who came here illegally are not on their way to permanent residence, no matter whether they lived here for 10 years or 20. Period. Done. Fact.

And so you should bring them in front of queue ? As an incentive for breaking the law?

You may foam at the mouth and stomp your feet all you want, but the fact that some EB immigrant had a hard time getting a green card does not mean that 10 million productive illegal immigrants need to be denied their pursuit of legal residence. You can either join them, or you can continue to wish poor on people who are worse off then you are.

Oh compassion ! I wonder where your compassion evaporates when it comes to EB3-Indians (in fact EB2 as well now) . I see you are one of the most vocal against HR3012 which intends to abolish an illogical quota and now showering all blessings to illegal immigrants, again leaving the legal EB3-Indians out .

[maverick9]

To all people crying out loud on this Illegal vs Legal immigrant, you 'hv got to understand, you knew getting a GC is a long wait, you knew H1 was getting tougher, in fact you already planned for your life in those "wait years" - when will you get married, when can your wife start working, when you will get GC, and how long before you will become a citizen .. and how to leverage the system to keep you in this country for those many years...you knew everything in advance, you signed up for this, the positives outweighed all those expected negatives, that's why you came, that's why you stayed, that's why you still keep the hope alive ..

GC is a previlage not a right, if you are frustated enough, you can relocate to your home country or any other country for that matter , only if you can find a better place to live and work.

Illegal immigration is bad for country, economy, society - but thats part of the life, every country suffers from it. Back in India as well, there are tons of problems because of our illegal immigrants from neghibors from east, here in US, the benefit extended will be for people who went to school, served in military, spent good amount of time here, embraced culture ... just because they are not well educated, they dont earn good salary, they work in lower income jobs, it is absolutely wrong to critisize them .. agree politics in involved, but thats story for every damn issue in every country .. it's impacting us so we started comparing us to more previlaged (actually less) ones..

If you are exceptionally talented, there are still EB1 category or EB2 NIW available ... prove yourself and get there faster, if you are not ... relax, sit down, plan for your extension (pun intended) and take a chill pill.

[Belle]

Why would any "illegal" immigrant be considered before legal immigrant? The torch bearers of law like JoeF and you always seem to preaching about what is legal and not legal and how everyone should be following the law. Like JoeF always clearly points out that our visting parents are not allowed to help in any household work like even occassional cooking as that is NOT legal (I know they should hire an illegal instead) but when it comes to "illegals" it is perfectly okay to grant them permanent residency? Shouldn't they just be deported as they clearly broke the law???

For one simple reason - because they proved it's in the best interests of the country. They provided the votes to elect a President. They cannot be taken out of the workforce because they are an important part of it. The country can't function without them. And who is where in that line is quite honestly, irrelevant.

Once you can prove that this country needs you badly, you can get ahead, too. Just being in line means nothing.

[Belle]

you are right: aging out of h4 children is an issue. So, this would have to be raised during the CIR legislation debate (whenever that occurs).

Proposed fixes would be: as long as 485 was filed before aging out, green card should be granted if the PD is not current.

Well, actually, that's how it is in the law right now.

To ensure that kids don't age out quotas for those who work in the US to be eliminated. But my friends here are too preoccupied with taking visa numbers from other countries and giving them to India EB3 to see the forest behind the trees and how the issues can be fixed for all. That's why they are always losing.

[Belle]

Did anybody help till now ? I must have missed !

Correct - because IV has been talking like that for several years there has been no relief. Thank you for proving my point. If you want to excluded from any relief in the new CIR, all you need to do is keep on talking.

[roul_raj123]

You may foam at the mouth and stomp your feet all you want, but the fact that some EB immigrant had a hard time getting a green card does not mean that 10 million productive illegal immigrants need to be denied their pursuit of legal residence. You can either join them, or you can continue to wish poor on people who are worse off then you are.

10 million productive illegal immigrants?????Huhhhhh

First of all who asked the illegal immigrant to violate the laws of the United State of America to cross here illegally? If they did so, let them face the consequences. We came here legally, paid all the taxes, paid for our health benefits, paid for SSN, and other taxes, and we are doing our efforts to improve USA Economy. What do you mean by productive illegal immigrants????? By paid in CASH for their illegal works????By not Contributing to SSN?????By getting free Health Benefits, which come from our Tax Money???

If you do not like the facts, then get the facts.

[Desi Dude]

No, actually, many people point out that if a workable guest worker program that provides pathways to permanent residence is not established, we should expect continued illegal immigration. Having a workable legal immigration system is in the best interest of all immigrant groups, however, it is rarely used as a point of consensus. Some people would rather compete against other immigrant groups than work together.

Really ??? Ever heard of H2A & H2B, both are temporary guest worker programs. Infact even H1B & L1 are temporary guest worker programs. Ever heard of TN, special visas for Mexicans & Canadians !!!

What else do you want as a guest worker program?

Why would any "illegal" immigrant be considered before legal immigrant? The torch bearers of law like JoeF and you always seem to preaching about what is legal and not legal and how everyone should be following the law. Like JoeF always clearly points out that our visting parents are not allowed to help in any household work like even occassional cooking as that is NOT legal (I know they should hire an illegal instead) but when it comes to "illegals" it is perfectly okay to grant them permanent residency? Shouldn't they just be deported as they clearly broke the law???

Yes and that is why JoeF can't answer the question I raised. He doesn't know. Nobody has thought about this. What will happen to the next million illegals, AFTER all the illegals are made legals?

[chakrakr]

Correct - because IV has been talking like that for several years there has been no relief. Thank you for proving my point. If you want to excluded from any relief in the new CIR, all you need to do is keep on talking.

Proving which point ? That you will not help if we do not support your agenda to put illegals before the legals in the queue ? Or that you have NEVER helped EB cause ? Or your point that law violators should be rewarded ?

But you definitely have proved a point --- NO EB2-ROW ever thought to helping the EB cause -- just because they never had any problem. They are vocal now against HR3012 because fellows from their home country will not be able to benefit from a illogical quota system.

[chakrakr]

They provided the votes to elect a President. .

You said it all --- that is all what it is .

[JoeF]

Good to US economy.

Can you elaborate this?

Does this country needs the people who paid taxes and will pay taxes in future or the people who evaded the taxes?

The people won't be getting exploited anymore, they get higher salary, which means more taxes to the US, they can start buying things like cars, etc. Which is good for the US economy, etc. etc. etc.

Please learn a bit about economics.

Getting these people out of the shadow and into the normal economy is good for them and for the US economy.

[JoeF]

Yes and that is why JoeF can't answer the question I raised. He doesn't know. Nobody has thought about this. What will happen to the next million illegals, AFTER all the illegals are made legals?

Sigh. When will people learn to read my old posts???

The long-term solution is to make sure that people have an incentive to stay in their country, i.e., to improve the economy in their country. NAFTA was one such attempt, and it has helped somewhat.

It is not possible, though, to prevent people from coming here, unless you turn the US into a police state. But people only jump the fence as a last resort. Helping them in their country is a good thing, as is making sure that the people who are here get out of the shadows.

[rahul412]

They cannot be taken out of the workforce because they are an important part of it. The country can't function without them.

Once you can prove that this country needs you badly, you can get ahead, too. Just being in line means nothing.

If they are so important then why the govt doesn't provide work visa like H1 for them?

You are not trying to help them, you guys are trying to take adv of their weakess.