H1 revoke

[sgmf]

I went for my visa interview at hyderabad consulate and received 221G form. I work on a client-vendor-employer model with letters and contract documents available at each level. I explained the same when asked during my interview but the consulate officer clearly stated that as per H1 terms this is illegal and should not be working this way and that my employer is only working as an agent. He also said that he will be revoking my H1 and sending it back to USCIS and is currently under administrative processing. Can someone explain me what does this mean, what options do I have now and what are the implications? Thanks in advance.

[JoeF]

As per the Neufeld memo, there has to be an employer-employee relationship, meaning that the employer has to control your work. That's pretty much impossible in an EVC model.

Find a real job, not one with a consultant.

[Diorsdune]

@ sgmf....

Sorry to hear about your experience.

Did the VO retain your passport? Were you asked to submit additional documents?

What I don't understand is.. if the VO has already decided that he/she intends to revoke your H1 application then why did he/she not just deny the visa... why Administrative Processing??

Will you please share the questions you were asked along with your responses.

Thanks!

[babu2011]

sgmf....

Could you please share contact details if possible..

[rsaradamani@gmail.com]

Hi, I'm also in the same situation. I attended the H1B visa renewal interview on oct 4th 2011 in hyderabad. I got 221 g and VO told that he is transfering my new visa petition to the USCIS. can you please send your contact details to my email-id.

[BigJoe5]

Under the INA there is a separation of administrative functions according to statutory authority. While DOS issues visas abroad, for the most part, any visa classification that relies on a petition being filed in advance, there is a series of checks and balances across agencies. If there is an underlying petition that was approved by USCIS, DOS has to send it back for consideration of revocation. Most such Consular Returns do get revoked as requested and are often supported by additional evidence and findings made abroad, but some petitions get reaffirmed. In this scenario it is likely that the petition will be revoked as requested.

[sgmf]

@ sgmf....

Sorry to hear about your experience.

Did the VO retain your passport? Were you asked to submit additional documents?

What I don't understand is.. if the VO has already decided that he/she intends to revoke your H1 application then why did he/she not just deny the visa... why Administrative Processing??

Will you please share the questions you were asked along with your responses.

Thanks!

@Diorsdune:

VO didn't retain my passport and he didn't ask for any additional documents but i left with him my I-797 approval (previous ones as well), I-129 petition, LCA, EVC contract documents, EVC letters.

The only questions i was asked was:

1. Why do you want to go to US [Answer: I work there.]

2. Who is my employer [Answer: my employer name]

3. Who is ABC [Answer: Client/Vendor depending on the name]

4. How is this ABC related to my emplyer? [Explained EVC and showed the contract documents]

5. Who evaluates my work [Answer: My employer name]

6. With whom do i have my status meetings and what time frame [My Employer and weekly basis]

Even I am baffled why he gave me the blue color 221g form with administrative processing and mentioning "sending to uscis". I really need some help from all you experienced members as to what this means, what options i have now and what are the implications? Once i understand this, I can plan my further steps but at this point of time, i just don't know what to do. Thnx.

[manishqs]

I am in the same boat as you. The VO in Hyderabad consulate gave me a 221g white form which says administrative processing and he said that i am sending your case to USCIS for revocation.

Are you able to Track your case using the Case number he provided. When i try to Track it the application says "Not able to find the case number". Please let me know.

[Diorsdune]

@sgmf

In your first post in this topic when you stated that the VO said - " that my employer is only working as an agent" - I thought this was an Employer-Employee relationship establishment issue. However, based on your interview details.. you clearly state that your employer is the person you will be reporting to... and your employer evaluates your work.. then how come your employer is just an agent??

@ BigJoe5 - Does this make sense to you?

@ rsaradamani - If your case is identical to sgmf's - Like sgmf please can you share the questions you were asked along with your responses. Did you say you were reporting to your employer or client?

[BigJoe5]

I think that the Consular Officer is viewing the situation as "job shop" set-up where the petitioner files many I-129s for just about anyone and probably benches a bunch of H1-Bs on a regular basis. That is just a guess at what the Consular Officer might be surmising. Don't attack me for stating the obvious. In case anyone viewing is naive enough not to know this then somebody had to state it.

[JoeF]

@sgmf

In your first post in this topic when you stated that the VO said - " that my employer is only working as an agent" - I thought this was an Employer-Employee relationship establishment issue. However, based on your interview details.. you clearly state that your employer is the person you will be reporting to... and your employer evaluates your work.. then how come your employer is just an agent??

The documents probably contradicted the statement...

In a EVC model, the client generally doesn't even know anything about the employer. The client only deals with the vendor.

And in general, non-disclosure agreements prohibit anybody from the client to discuss the internal work details with a third party, like the employer in this case.

That's why, after the Neufeld memo, EVC is pretty much a dead thing.

[share_info]

[/b]

The documents probably contradicted the statement...

In a EVC model, the client generally doesn't even know anything about the employer. The client only deals with the vendor.

And in general, non-disclosure agreements prohibit anybody from the client to discuss the internal work details with a third party, like the employer in this case.

That's why, after the Neufeld memo, EVC is pretty much a dead thing.

If EVC is pretty much dead thing, why doesn't USCIS deny the H1B application itself for EVC model jobs? is it a deadthing only for Visa officer but not to USCIS?

[Diorsdune]

@ JoeF & BigJoe5 :- I sure know & see the point you're making with EVC.

However, shouldn't the USCIS be rejecting these H1 petitions then? Why are the VOs & USCIS at a disconnect with this?

[JoeF]

@ JoeF & BigJoe5 :- I sure know & see the point you're making with EVC.

However, shouldn't the USCIS be rejecting these H1 petitions then? Why are the VOs & USCIS at a disconnect with this?

You would have to ask USCIS...

Some guesses:

Examiners and visa officers have some discretion in how they handle things.

Further, a lot of these cases came from before the Neufeld memo, where people just now go for stamping.

[Diorsdune]

Thanks JoeF.

[manishqs]

@ JoeF & BigJoe5 -

Based on the below answers VO gave me a 221g and said he is sending case to USCIS for revocation since it looks like your work is more controlled by the client rather than your employer.

In my case, I work in EC Model and i specifically said i interact with my Employer on a weekly basis regarding my work status, but on a daily basis i interact with the Client Manager related to work assignment, he also asked the equipment you use is given by client or the employer.

I said since my client is a banking client, they dont allow any third party equipment to be used because of security reasons and hence i am using client equipment.

Do you think weather USCIS will contact my employer before making a decision or they will just act as request by the VO.

[Questionaire]

hi All,

I am on the same boat. i was given 221g white on 3rd oct and was told that my application would be sent to USCIS to be revoked. i am on EVC model with both client and vendor letter.

Here are my questions

1. Did you do your masters?

2. Which university?

3. What is your major?

4. Who is this ___ (My employer) ? I said my employer is a technology firm providing network and technology services to differet industries like telecom, health care etc...

5. who is your client?

6. Where is your cclient located, where is your employer located?

7. How many people from your employer work at your client location. I said i am the only one right now but bring more in in a month or so. (I wonder if i didn't answer correctly, i should have said me my my supervisor..not sure if that would make life complex. Since i am the only one at client location.)

8. how often you report to your employer and how? i said on weekly basis by phone and emails.

9. whom you report to at client location? i said client manager as well as vendor manager.

9. who owns the tools you use at client location? i said both client and vendor.

10. What is the manager name at client location? i gave my client's manager name.

He was typing something for each question he asks me.

At the end he asked me to give my I-129, LCA, Client letters and said your employment is not authorized under regulations of USCIS. i am sending your application to be revoked to USCIS, and gave me 221g White asking me to check the status online.

Then i asked him what are my chances of getting Visa. He said USCIS is completely different dept, they would revisit my application and take a decision based on the notes he wrote/sent to USCIS, and if they still put my H1b active then i need to come again for visa interview and get stamped.

i understood that 99% my H1b would be revoked. My intention was to ask my employer to revoke the application and apply h1b again in premium processing then give a try for one more time at Chennai (fed up with Hyd).

I was wondering if they keep all the notes that was written during my prior interview. Can any one have any indformation on that.

Kindly share your information for the following questions.

A. Do they have my answers of prior interview?

B. Do i need to run pay check again for the month of Octoboer? (i have pay checks till aug 31 that was generated on sep 19th, my next pay check would run on Oct 19th for sep 1st to 30th but not sure if i need not for next interview)

C. What should i answer if they ask me how many people work at client location?

D. What should i answer if they ask me how often you report to employer?

Thx

[h1b321]

Hey Guys,

Same story: Appeared in HYD EVC model and had the petition sent back for revocation. I had got the amendment done last month and petition was recently approved. Same questions asked as mentioned below, as soon as the VO asked about the vendor he appeared to have made a decision. Asked me questions just for the heck of it , when he was questioning about right to control I explained him the work flow employer --> Vendor --> client, but he was stuck on direct relation with the client and considered the employment as third party placement which according to him was not allowed as per H1B laws.

Anyways if E-C model then I guess its going thru, so I guess this should be worked out before we go to the consulate. I not pissed at the VO (he is just doing his job) but at the disconnect between consulate and USCIS. If USCIS acknowledges this as a issue I would have accepted a FT offer being in U.S.

So long story short find employment with some Indian company like cngoniznta or wirpo or TSC which is implementing or handling IT by placing some fresh kid out of school and does not call it a "desi company" , does not worry about the quality of work to the client and delivers some **** .....but yes fulfills all the employer employee relations perfectly ....coz the VO wants you to work for such companies ......or work for end client who will not file your GC for at least 2 yrs and once filed the GC will take 5 yrs ..to get processed ...till then bear the pain .....I would understand if the employer is breaking the law ....or troubling me .....but I am being paid since 5 yrs without break .......WTH ..... I guess the real story is USCIS is funded by the petition money and consulate is run by the Gov ....so I do not expect a clear answer from USCIS till the economy is back on the track .....

[BigJoe5]

@ JoeF & BigJoe5 :- I sure know & see the point you're making with EVC.

However, shouldn't the USCIS be rejecting these H1 petitions then? Why are the VOs & USCIS at a disconnect with this?

It was a slow decline in quality of adjudications based on successful but twisted legal arguments that confused USCIS adjudicators for a while. Then some clarity came when DOS started sending back cases and then the Employer-Employee Relationship issue was addressed and cleaned up via the memo. That memo was a restatement of the correct approach to the issue from which USCIS had strayed. Unworthy and highly unethical job shop employers got away with it for a while and cried foul when the floodgate was closed. Some alien beneficiaries are still confronting the issue for the first time during renewals and extension, or changes of employer.

[sgmf]

Since my current H1 has been sent back to USCIS and can be safely considered to be in pending status, can i now apply for a new H1 with the same or a different employer? If yes, then what happens to my previous H1 and will there be any problems in the future?

[forumman]

@sgmf: Since your current petition has been returned to USCIS, they no longer deal your case. You can definitely apply for a fresh H1 with your current employer or a new employer, but I suggest you find a E-C or Full Time employment this time, otherwise, you would have to bite the same bullet again during visa interview.

[sgmf]

Thnx forumman. One more question, my H1 is valid till Sept 2012, let's say if i don't hear back anything from USCIS till then, then what happens? If I got for a visa interview next time with a new H1, will there be any bad mark on my case?

[hmaster]

"mark" (history, good or bad) will always be there. It's just your luck, if the new VO is interested in looking at it the next time. Best of luck!