Ideas? How to move EB3 forward

[Belle]

"No where it says that you have a 90 days grace period to change your intent. So it is better to stick to the basics."

Basics? Like all those statements needs to be true at the time of interview and entry, and where does it say that students are not allowed to change intent? That's the basics courts accept - people change intent. It's life.

"why don’t you try to say the truth with boldness to the Visa Officer, that after 90 days I will change my intent, and will apply for my Green Card.?"

Many people have done it. Successfully. This just shows the extent of your ignorance.

[strynz]

Originally posted by roul_raj123:

Wait…..Wait……Wait every one…..

The basic qualification criteria for a Student visa as mentioned in travel.state.gov are as follows:

The Immigration and National Act is very specific with regard to the requirements which must be met by applicants to qualify for the student visa. The consular officer will determine whether you qualify for the visa. Additionally, applicants must demonstrate that they properly meet student visa requirements including:

• Have a residence abroad, with no immediate intention of abandoning that residence;

• Intend to depart from the United States upon completion of the course of study; and

• Possess sufficient funds to pursue the proposed course of study.

No where it says that you have a 90 days grace period to change your intent. So it is better to stick to the basics.

1) At the time you get your first visa, you are specifically asked "What are you going to do when this expires?†to which you reply "I am coming back to my home country". That question is asked to all F1 Applicants during the visa interview.

2) At the time you cross the border into the US using an F-1, you re-affirm your intention to come back when the F-1 business is all done.

As per you people, suddenly after 90 days your intention changes. Wait….I smell something fishy here. The basic truth is that, from the 1st day itself your intention was to stay here permanently, but in order to get the F1 visa you say a complete lie first to the Visa Officer, and then to the POE Officer. That means that you totally misrepresented yourself during the F1 Visa process. And that is a fraud.

If you guys are so confident, and feel that this is not fraud, then why don’t you try to say the truth with boldness to the Visa Officer, that after 90 days I will change my intent, and will apply for my Green Card.?

Nobody applies for green card while on F1. It's nto possible.

Most F1s first become H1s and then they apply for green card.

And those H1s, according to the USCIS are better qualified that H1s like you (with dubious education/experience in a third world country) for EB2.

So why cry? go get a better education and get into EB2 or EB1. or fight for CIR. But why are you sitting in EB3 and crying?

[bjayapal]

roul_raj123, i understand your frustration, but your anger is misguided.

First off, people are entitled to change their minds, someone in F1 is entitled to change their visa to H1 and then apply for their green cards - USCIS knows this all too well; how on earth is this considered fraud.

Also, H1-b is considered a dual intent visa, but imagine a first time H1-b visa applicant in India, who's never been to the US; if during the visa interview the applicant makes it quite obvious that he/she intends to file for his/her green card the moment they land here in the US - do you think the person would get this H1-b?

Getting a masters degree is not a joke, not here in the US, not anywhere. For the vast majority of those who already have a masters degree from a university here in the US, green card was probably not the biggest reason why they worked hard to get their degrees in the first place - so don't hate the player hate the game.

The system as a whole is not lenient towards EB3 and no one is denying that, but a few with advanced degrees have the option to get ahead and there is nothing wrong with that either. When you are trying to equate EB2 to illegal immigration/fraud/something more sinister, that's what bothers people.

If you think EB2 folks have it easy, you should, by all means try and get a Masters degree and get ahead in the queue; H1-b visa holders can go to school part time.

Also, to be eligible for EB2, you don't have to have a masters degree, a significant amount of experience can often be substituted for a masters degree in your EB2 application.

Your "if i don't get it, no ones gets it" attitude is just wrong. Bottom line, EB2 gets preferential treatment over EB3 from USCIS, deal with it.

[Belle]

"Nobody applies for green card while on F1. It's nto possible."

OF COURSE it is possible. Not many people end up doing it because it is practically harder than doing it through H1, but it is not a problem at all to file AOS while in F status.

[Illinois_Dude]

bjayapal,

Thank you so much for speaking some sense. One other thing you should also mention is that having a masters/Phd degree does not automatically qualify you for EB2..The job has to require it..So many of us have had their petitions filed in EB3 inspite of both having an advanced degree and the job requiring it.. due to some stupid company policy..

[CatSpit]

Originally posted by roul_raj123:

Wait…..Wait……Wait every one…..

The basic qualification criteria for a Student visa as mentioned in travel.state.gov are as follows:

The Immigration and National Act is very specific with regard to the requirements which must be met by applicants to qualify for the student visa. The consular officer will determine whether you qualify for the visa. Additionally, applicants must demonstrate that they properly meet student visa requirements including:

• Have a residence abroad, with no immediate intention of abandoning that residence;

• Intend to depart from the United States upon completion of the course of study; and

• Possess sufficient funds to pursue the proposed course of study.

No where it says that you have a 90 days grace period to change your intent. So it is better to stick to the basics.

1) At the time you get your first visa, you are specifically asked "What are you going to do when this expires?†to which you reply "I am coming back to my home country". That question is asked to all F1 Applicants during the visa interview.

2) At the time you cross the border into the US using an F-1, you re-affirm your intention to come back when the F-1 business is all done.

As per you people, suddenly after 90 days your intention changes. Wait….I smell something fishy here. The basic truth is that, from the 1st day itself your intention was to stay here permanently, but in order to get the F1 visa you say a complete lie first to the Visa Officer, and then to the POE Officer. That means that you totally misrepresented yourself during the F1 Visa process. And that is a fraud.

If you guys are so confident, and feel that this is not fraud, then why don’t you try to say the truth with boldness to the Visa Officer, that after 90 days I will change my intent, and will apply for my Green Card.?

roul_raj123 and others who think that EB2 applicants are committing fraud, what are you going to do about it? NOTHING, i presume.

Folks who have a master's degree here in the US will continue to get their GCs faster than EB3 applicants and you can do nothing to stop it.

Folks with about 5 or more years of experience, before joining the GC sponsoring employer are also eligible for EB2, but this may not be so common these days, for fear of being audited. You may have enough experience and your company may not have chosen to apply yours under EB2, but that does not give you the right to claim that all EB2 applicants are fraudsters.

Get your facts straight - F1 students cannot apply for greencard, they almost always get a H1-b and then apply for their greencard.

You seem to have discovered something that the government failed to see. You should do something about it. Try changing the law so that this type of fraud is stopped.

[This message was edited by Admin on April 24, 2011 at 10:55 AM.]

[bjayapal]

Originally posted by Illinois_Dude:

bjayapal,

Thank you so much for speaking some sense. One other thing you should also mention is that having a masters/Phd degree does not automatically qualify you for EB2..The job has to require it..So many of us have had their petitions filed in EB3 inspite of both having an advanced degree and the job requiring it.. due to some stupid company policy..

Agreed, it works both ways. Someone with an advanced degree, cannot always file under EB2 and someone with a bachelors can end up filing under EB2 with enough experience. It has to do with a number of factors like, education, experience, willingness of your employer to file in EB2 ...

[bjayapal]

Originally posted by roul_raj123:

Come on guys. I am hearing a lot of hero-praising about going for a Master’s Degree, and if you don’t get a Master degree, then you are not a genius. Here I will give you some more examples about how genius they are.

1) When a person applies for a Student Visa to do a Master’s degree, he clearly makes sure with the Visa Officer at the Embassy that they do intend to come back to their home country after the Study is over. Most of the times, once the study is over, they change their mind, and decide to work in this country, contrary to what they told to the Visa Officer. So that means that what they told to the visa officer was a lie. This is the 1st starting point of being a fake genius.

2) When they finish the Master Degree, most of the times, when they apply for the job, they know beforehand that they need to put at least 5-7 years of fake experience in their resume. When Managers scan 100s of resumes, they filter for experience, and if you do not fulfill that criteria, then those resumes are trashed into dustbin. These Master Degree holders then create their resume in such a way that, their resumes will have at least 5-7 years of fake experience. This is the 2nd point of being a fake genius.

3) When true genius people do their Master Degree or PhD degree, they have some objectives. Some of the examples are

a) Join a University to be a professor

b) Join a Research & Development wing, where they can invent some new thing etc.

But where these fake genius master degree holders land? They land in the IT sector, where they do software development (Coding), QA, etc. Come on, if you want to do such works, then you don’t need a Master Degree. You can join a 3 months diploma course, and you are all set. Is there something I missed? Yes I missed one thing here; these people need just a Paper Certificate with a Master Degree stamp, so that they can play around the loopholes in the immigration system, and apply for EB2. This is the 3rd point of being a fake genius.

On the contrary, a person with EB3 category does not need to go through all these paths. So everyone here in this thread can decide who the true genius is.

Just do a google search on "staple green cards to degrees"; you will see a number of US leaders proposing to award green cards to (F1) college graduates here in the US, right out of school. You, in your infinite wisdom, are suggesting the US government to do the exact opposite.

This has been said many times in this thread and i will say it again - the US government has every right to choose who it wants to give green cards to and they prefer EB2 over EB3. You can whine all you want and rant on a number of forums, but nothing will change. Even if there is comprehensive immigration reform, US educated individuals will be preferred over those who are not educated here - the sooner you understand and accept this fact, the better you will sleep at night.

[Joe.F]

Originally posted by Belle:

"Nobody applies for green card while on F1. It's nto possible."

OF COURSE it is possible. Not many people end up doing it because it is practically harder than doing it through H1, but it is not a problem at all to file AOS while in F status.

In fact, I do know people who did just that. EB2-NIW and concurrent I-485 (for some, it is current, for some, it was current in July 2007) while finishing up their PhDs.

[roul_raj123]

Originally posted by bjayapal:

Just do a google search on "staple green cards to degrees"; you will see a number of US leaders proposing to award green cards to (F1) college graduates here in the US, right out of school. You, in your infinite wisdom, are suggesting the US government to do the exact opposite.

This has been said many times in this thread and i will say it again - the US government has every right to choose who it wants to give green cards to and they prefer EB2 over EB3. You can whine all you want and rant on a number of forums, but nothing will change. Even if there is comprehensive immigration reform, US educated individuals will be preferred over those who are not educated here - the sooner you understand and accept this fact, the better you will sleep at night.

There are also numbers of US leaders who are proposing to legalize the illegal immigrants. Does that mean USA government support illegal immigration? So after all these wrong-doings, people do not seem to have any senses. USA government prefer USA born (USA CITIZEN) MASTER DEGREE HOLDERS. They do not care about F1 students who come here as temporary students, and USA government only cares about the hefty tuition fees that they generate from foreign students. If they care about the foreign students so much, then why do they expect F1 students to declare the intent to go back to home country? The bottom line is that F1 students are wanted here only to pay money, get degree, and then go back to your country. So all foreign students should be having the visa criteria in the back of their mind, or otherwise they will be shown the door sooner or later by USA GOVERNMENT. If you do not like the rules, or do not like the visa criteria, then you can stay back in your home country. Anyway there are lots of colleges in your own country, where you can study. There is no steadfast rule that if you study in an USA University, you will become super-intelligent in 2 years time.

[Belle]

"The bottom line is that because H1b is a tough/impossible route to come to USA for these USA die-hard aspirants, people are taking a much easier route to come to USA through a Student Visa, and then play with the loopholes of the immigration system, by changing their intent, and staying back in this country, which is a complete violation from their original intention."

Of course, intent can never change. It is almost impossible to change your mind about a place of living after YEARS of studying and then working in a country. It is SO UNUSUAL for people to come check a country out through studies, then find a job, and then eventually settle. Never happens.

Maybe you should pull your head out of desi immgration gutter and see the world. Maybe you should go to another country to get a degree and see how things are for yourself.

[CatSpit]

Originally posted by roul_raj123:

There are also numbers of US leaders who are proposing to legalize the illegal immigrants. Does that mean USA government support illegal immigration? So after all these wrong-doings, people do not seem to have any senses. USA government prefer USA born (USA CITIZEN) MASTER DEGREE HOLDERS. They do not care about F1 students who come here as temporary students, and USA government only cares about the hefty tuition fees that they generate from foreign students. If they care about the foreign students so much, then why do they expect F1 students to declare the intent to go back to home country? The bottom line is that F1 students are wanted here only to pay money, get degree, and then go back to your country. So all foreign students should be having the visa criteria in the back of their mind, or otherwise they will be shown the door sooner or later by USA GOVERNMENT. If you do not like the rules, or do not like the visa criteria, then you can stay back in your home country. Anyway there are lots of colleges in your own country, where you can study. There is no steadfast rule that if you study in an USA University, you will become super-intelligent in 2 years time.

So when US leaders say they want to staple a greencard to every advanced degree, they are talking about giving greencards to US Citizens, yeah that makes perfect sense - NOT

The vast majority of F1 students, especially the ones enrolled in advanced technical degrees (most MS and almost all PhDs), are on scholarship; a few of them have scholarships with the acceptance (even before they go for their visa interviews - all PhDs) and quite a few get some kind of assistance (at least a tuition waiver) after enrolling and the rest get at least a tuition waiver or some kind of an RA or TA position that pays handsomely, mostly after one semester.

I now honestly believe that you are one of those guys who will argue, just for the sake of arguing. There is no harm in accepting that you know nothing about F1 students. Every industrialized country is like this; they spend vast amounts of money on universities, hoping that the talent pool generated will keep the economy humming smoothly over a long period of time. Even in India, the government spends a lot of money on every IIT graduate, HOPING that they would stay in India - but a vast majority of them end up going abroad, but this will never motivate the Indian government to stop spending on IITs.

Again, EB2 is preferred over EB3 and YOU CANNOT DO ANYTHING to change that; mind you, having a Master's degree is not the only requirement for EB2. All spill overs from EB1 will go to EB2, until of course EB2 becomes current. You can talk all you want here, but aging NOTHING WILL CHANGE.

Here's an account of my roommates' (and a couple of his batch mates) path to greencard; I'm sure you'll enjoy reading - He was born in India and graduated in Dec 2005 here in California, with a Masters in Mechanical Engineering, had a tuition waiver and was working part time for living expenses during his studies - other than his one way flight ticket to the US, don't think he spent any money out of pocket during his studies.

Started working as a software developer (Surprise Surprise) for a fortune 100 company, right after graduation. Started his greencard process soon after joining the company and filed under EB2 in Jun 2006; filed his I485 in Jul 2007 when everything was current and got his greencard in Sep 2008 - It took him a total of 2 Years and 4 Months to get his greencard, never had to fake his experience or anything, just applied under EB2 and for an Indian he was very lucky, might i add. Should I warn him, that you are going to out him to the government as a fraudster and how long do you think you will need to convince USCIS that F1 students should be sent back home W/O being able to apply for their greencards; for a genius like you, it shouldn't take more than 6 to 8 weeks - I guess all current and future EB2 greencard holders with Masters degree should be scared - keep dreaming.

[Belle]

"First of all let me ask you, when you say college graduates get jobs through campus, you must be joking. Those real campus jobs are for American born USA Citizens, and that’s too not so many companies now-a-days are even doing that. Come to the real world. For these fresh F1 graduate students, the only reality to get a job is to apply through a consultancy company, who will take their resume, put 5-6 years of fake experience, and apply for jobs, for very meager rate. If these people will apply through the normal route of job search, by telling the truth, and putting 0 years of experience, the only place their resume can land is into the trash can. In the real world most of the f1 student put fake experience to get a job, that is the reality. Who told you that these desi companies do background checks, forget that."

Again, you need to pull your head out of the desi immigration gutter. I had numerous friends find "real jobs for real people" (i.e. large corporations that hire on campus), and nobody had to fake their experience, even if they had none. Was it easy - most of the time, no. But those who were good and tried hard managed to accomlish it. Maybe you have not met such people, but it only speaks about YOUR path to immigration, not other people's.

"I can also advise you the same thing. May be you should also pull your head out of desi immigration gutter and see the world. Support legal immigration. Do not support paths of immigrations that are questionable."

Oh, I get it. Basically, if you could not accomplish something, then everyone else must just as incapable. Nice criteria, but only worth EB3. Maybe not even worth that.