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maverick41

Immigration Reform

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That makes sense, and that's possible only when their is growth. I agree there will be growth.

But why these double tongued statements,one side complaining for lack of resources and other side laying off the employees?

 

A company the size of MS has lots of different divisions. Some divisions may have a slump, some may have growth. So, lack of resources in one division and layoffs in another division is a perfectly normal thing.

In the MS case, they bought Nokia's mobile phone business, which has on the order of 23K employees. Most of Nokia's business has been feature phones, which are still sold, e.g., in developing countries, but their sales are rapidly shrinking. And Nokia's smartphones, using Windows Mobile, aren't picking up in sales. So, it is not surprising at all that they lay off people at their phone-producing plants.

At the same time, other MS divisions, e.g., XBox, may need people. But they need different skill sets than phone manufacturing. Hence the seeming contradiction of laying off people and not having enough people at the same time.

If, for example, Nokia had laid off, say, 15K people before they got bought by MS, all this tempest in a teapot discussion wouldn't even have happened.

I think one of the issues is that people see MS as a software company only, not realizing that MS is a rather big hardware manufacturer nowadays. Even before they bought Nokia, they did hardware for a long time, from mice to keyboards to the XBox to the Surface tablet (they lost $900M on the Surface RT...)

This kind of stuff, laying people off in one division and needing more people in another division happens all the time in diversified companies.

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Now I am getting very good info. But does the common people in US understands all these stuff when it comes to immigration??Becuase I saw many people blaming MS for their policies and moving out the jobs from US.

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Now I am getting very good info. But does the common people in US understands all these stuff when it comes to immigration??Becuase I saw many people blaming MS for their policies and moving out the jobs from US.

 

Most Americans don't understand that stuff. That's why there is the bad sentiment about the H1.

But then, a large part of the American populace doesn't understand basic science, either, so none of that surprises me... Highschool education in this country is to a large extent broken.

</rant>

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Recent news reports indicate that we are going to see a presidential executive order on immigration in August. There was also a Murthy blog post about this topic on July 23rd. The focus many predict is going to be on border security and the possible expansion of DACA.

Since the basis of this executive order is going to be the lack of agreement in Congress on the recent border issue and the stalled year old S744 bill I wonder if in addition to the border security provision if other provisions in S.744 would be considered. For example,having a cap of 5 years on decisions for pending EB applications(section 2302) would be nice but I guess just wishful thinking on my part.

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Recent news reports indicate that we are going to see a presidential executive order on immigration in August. There was also a Murthy blog post about this topic on July 23rd. The focus many predict is going to be on border security and the possible expansion of DACA.

Since the basis of this executive order is going to be the lack of agreement in Congress on the recent border issue and the stalled year old S744 bill I wonder if in addition to the border security provision if other provisions in S.744 would be considered. For example,having a cap of 5 years on decisions for pending EB applications(section 2302) would be nice but I guess just wishful thinking on my part.

 

How is the Executive Order going to help Legal Immigrants? Can you explain?

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This administration and the supporting media thinks that its an 'humanitarian crisis', that's complete BS and indirectly encouraging people to cross the border.

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The executive order may take elements from S.744 which was agreed upon by both Democrats and Republicans and passed by the Senate. Among the hot button issues in the bill such as path to legalization and enhancing border security there was also a provision for employment based immigration.

 

Here is what I had written before (page1 of the thread):

This bill is doing away with EB categories and coming up with a point based immigration system with different tiers (based on education, employment experience, high demand occupation , civic involvement, English language etc)

 

Now how is this bill relevant to those with pending green card applications?
Section. 2302 merit-based track two. of the bill mentions employment based immigrants broadly and that beginning on "October 1, 2014 the following aliens shall be eligible for merit-based immigrant visas- (1) employment-based immigrants. "
To summarize this section- an alien who is the beneficiary of a petition filed before the date of the enactment of this Act is eligible for a green card within 5 years after the date on which the petition is filed.

 

So the the hope is that "if" there is an executive order that borrows from S.744 then the hope is that they would also look into the quagmire faced by legal immigrants.

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Just to follow up it would make sense for the President to lean on S.744 if he decides to go for an executive order because he can state that both republicans and democrats supported the bill---plus it was crafted by the "Gang of Eight" a bi-partisan group of senators.

 

Some fun facts on executive orders:

Franklin Roosevelt issued 3522 executive orders, Abraham Lincoln- 48, George Washington-8, Ronald Reagan-381, Bill Clinton-364, George W Bush- 291,  Barack Obama- 182 (Source:Wiki)

 

Famous Executive orders:

 

Equal Employment Opportunity
At the height of the Civil Rights Movement, President Lyndon B. Johnson signed Executive Order 11246 which bars discrimination in federal employment because of race, color, religion, sex, or national origin.

Affirmative Action
On March 6, 1961 President John F. Kennedy issued Executive Order 10925, which included a provision that government contractors "take affirmative action to ensure that applicants are employed, and employees are treated during employment, without regard to their race, creed, color, or national origin." 

Works Progress Administration
In 1935, at the height of the Great Depression, FDR used Executive Order number 7034 to create the Works Progress Administration, which put more than 8.5 million Americans back to work rebuilding the country one bridge, road, and mural at a time. 

Desegregation of Schools
In 1954 the Supreme Court decided Brown vs. Board of Education. But it would take much more than a court order to end school segregation, as the nation saw in 1957 when Arkansas Governor Orville Faubus refused to comply. Dwight D. Eisenhower'S EO 10730 placed the Arkansas National Guard under Federal control and sent in U.S. army troops to ensure that nine black children could safely attend Little Rock High School.

The Emancipation Proclamation.
Need we say more? The Proclamation freed all slaves living in the Confederacy, though left out the border states of Kentucky, Missouri, Maryland, Delaware, and West Virginia, which had yet to secede. 
(Source: Presente)

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With respect to executive orders and immigration, from numerous sources it appears that President Obama is going to use the latitude availed him under proprietorial discretion to expand deferred action and employment authorization to certain groups of illegal (so-called undocumented) aliens, such as parents of U.S. citizen children and parents of DACA children.

 

Unfortunately, and very regrettably, it does not appear that President Obama is going to anything to help legal aliens.  While admittedly his options in this respect are more limited, there are constitutional scholars that submit he could tweak how the USCIS is interpreting and implementing the immigration act.  One example is the USCIS application of "automatic" retention of a priority date for aged-out children under the CSPA.  The administration through the Department of Justice took their case for a very narrow interpretation of the law all the way to the Supreme Court and won.  In the ruling the Supreme Court did give the administration 'wiggle room' to change its interpretation to benefit all children who have aged-out.  This could be an executive action benefiting some legal aliens.  However, I have no expectation that is going to happen.

 

(With respect to the Supreme Court challenge in the first place, shame on President Obama for aggressively denying immigration benefits to legal aliens while looking for ways to expand benefits for illegal aliens.  Clearly President Obama's immigration actions are politically motivated to secure a voting block for Democrats.  I used to believe President Obama leaned toward doing the right thing, not just the political thing, and his immigration actions would be a "tide that floated all boats", but that is looking less and less likely, and correspondingly he is more and more losing my support.)

 

Regarding any broader executive actions, such as taking elements or otherwise leaning on elements of S. 744, those are not constitutionally legal options.

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The House GOP on Wednesday cobbled up an immigration bill to try and thwart any chance of an executive order. The House Rules Committee met late last night to try and get the bill considered and passed through the house. It is a daunting task because it has to pass the house and senate before recess. The bill contains language that prevents the president from issuing an executive order--

"The bill says that "unless explicitly authorized by law" -- that is, unless Congress authorizes it -- the federal government may not issue any "guidance, memorandums, regulations, policies, or other similar instruments" that would expand the number of illegal immigrants eligible for deferred action under President Obama's 2012 executive order that stopped deportations of some illegal immigrants who came to the United States as children. The bill would also bar any part of the federal government from "newly authoriz[ing] deferred action for any class of aliens not in lawful immigration status in the United States." And it would bar the government from "newly authoriz[ing] any alien to work in the United States" if that person is in the country illegally. That pretty much covers what Obama is reportedly planning to do.(source: Washington examiner)

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Unfortunately, and very regrettably, it does not appear that President Obama is going to anything to help legal aliens.

Indeed, President is concerned about the illegal immigrants rather than securing the border. He wants to take executive action because of more number of children entering into US illegally and that's the reason why I have no hopes.

 

Moreover the defeat of House majority leader (Eric Cantor) in the recent primary elections was a big blow to this immigration, analysts say that supporting this reform was a major factor for this defeat.

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Indeed, President is concerned about the illegal immigrants rather than securing the border. He wants to take executive action because of more number of children entering into US illegally and that's the reason why I have no hopes.

 

Moreover the defeat of House majority leader (Eric Cantor) in the recent primary elections was a big blow to this immigration, analysts say that supporting this reform was a major factor for this defeat.

 

It is not possible to "secure the border", unless the US is turned into a police state.

And even then, it is not possible.

See the former East Germany. They were a police state, and "secured" their border, with a wall, and mines etc. They lasted 40 years.

And the US Border with Mexico is much longer than the size of the border between West Germany and East Germany.

This "secure the border" stuff is just complete political BS from the right wing and fake news stations like Fox.

People need to THINK instead of just repeating BS from right wing id*ots.

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It is not possible to "secure the border", unless the US is turned into a police state.

And even then, it is not possible.

See the former East Germany. They were a police state, and "secured" their border, with a wall, and mines etc. They lasted 40 years.

And the US Border with Mexico is much longer than the size of the border between West Germany and East Germany.

This "secure the border" stuff is just complete political BS from the right wing and fake news stations like Fox.

People need to THINK instead of just repeating BS from right wing id*ots.

I agree that it's not possible to secure the border, so what should be the solution??

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I agree that it's not possible to secure the border, so what should be the solution??

 

Well, this country will have to accept the children that come across the border. That's the only realistic way.

Long term, helping improving the living conditions south of the border would help.

In the short term, the GOP has once again shown to be the incompetent and dysfunctional part of Congress. They canceled their own bill about this stuff.

From the news:

"On the last day before summer recess, dysfunction reigned in Congress.

House Republicans called off a vote on their $659 million emergency response to the border influx from Central America overwhelming immigration resources, unable to agree among themselves about what to do.

...

The result? Politicians go home for five weeks to campaign for the November congressional elections without sending President Barack Obama legislation to address what both parties agree is a humanitarian crisis at the southern border."

 

This makes an executive order more likely. And an executive order would deal with the humanitarian issue, not with backlogs for legal immigrant, which, compared to the humanitarian issue at the border, is a minor issue (even though some people don't like to hear that.)

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Secure the border as best as you can. That's all one can ask for. This may require increasing border personnel, better technology and having processes in place to deport or provide asylum /fair hearing depending on individual cases. People are always going to make that journey in search of a better life and its hard to stop that. Once potential immigrants make it to the US (that includes us too) the hope is that they do well for themselves and also contribute to this great country. Alright with that I will end my kumbaya moment.

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Well, this country will have to accept the children that come across the border. That's the only realistic way

For how long?? Aren't you encouraging more illegal immigration by doing so??

 

 

 

Long term, helping improving the living conditions south of the border would help.

How??

 

 

And an executive order would deal with the humanitarian issue, not with backlogs for legal immigrant, which, compared to the humanitarian issue at the border, is a minor issue (even though some people don't like to hear that.)

Children dying in Gaza that's not humanitarian crisis. Crossing the border illegally knowing that its CRIME is humanitarian crisis??

 

In what sense this makes a comprehensive immigration reform??

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There is a simple and inexpensive solution - legal action against employers who hire illegals.

 

No new law has to be created, it's already in the books. The government is just not enforcing the law, as they want votes and donations from big business.

 

Also to discourage future border crossing attempts, all illegals should be fingerprinted and told that anyone who is fingerprinted will NEVER EVER be able to get GC, even if they try to come legally in the future. Right now the illegals keep crossing the border again and again costing US taxpayers billions in their processing.

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For how long?? Aren't you encouraging more illegal immigration by doing so??

 

 

How??

 

 

Children dying in Gaza that's not humanitarian crisis. Crossing the border illegally knowing that its CRIME is humanitarian crisis??

 

In what sense this makes a comprehensive immigration reform??

 

Fact is that this country has long borders with a developing country.

Nobody in the world can secure that. Throwing flamebait like "illegal immigration" around doesn't change that.

It also doesn't help.

For a serious discussion, this BS about accusing someone or another to support "illegal immigration" would have to stop. People who throw that "illegal immigration" hammer around have already lost the argument.

And trying to throw this "children in Gaza" stuff around is really below the waistline. Shame on you!

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ost

Rahul, you apparently really have drunk the anti-immigrant kool-aid.

Trying to deflect the issue by pointing somewhere else, like the "children in Gaza" is a known tactic of the antis.

There are also children in Syria, in the Ukraine, in Kenya, etc. etc. etc.

This is in the US where the US has a responsibility. It is a humanitarian crisis in the US.

It is sad to see that you have become an anti-immigrant.

And the antis don't want you here, either. They only want white people... Most of them may not say it out loud, but that's their real agenda.

Edited by JoeF

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ost

Rahul, you apparently really have drunk the anti-immigrant kool-aid.

Trying to deflect the issue by pointing somewhere else, like the "children in Gaza" is a known tactic of the antis.

There are also children in Syria, in the Ukraine, in Kenya, etc. etc. etc.

This is in the US where the US has a responsibility. It is a humanitarian crisis in the US.

It is sad to see that you have become an anti-immigrant.

And the antis don't want you here, either. They only want white people... Most of them may not say it out loud, but that's their real agenda.

The reason for using gaza was to explain the really meaning of humanitarian crisis. Not to divert the topic.

I am an immigrant and I am not against immigration. I am against illegal immigration, do you get it??

If you support the people crossing the border illegally then what's the use of having immigration laws??

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Fact is that this country has long borders with a developing country.

Nobody in the world can secure that. Throwing flamebait like "illegal immigration" around doesn't change that.

It also doesn't help.

For a serious discussion, this BS about accusing someone or another to support "illegal immigration" would have to stop. People who throw that "illegal immigration" hammer around have already lost the argument.

And trying to throw this "children in Gaza" stuff around is really below the waistline. Shame on you!

I am not understanding you here. You didn't gave a reply or a solution for the problem. For how long you accept these people??

What's the solution for this 'humanitarian crisis'??

 

BTW what's your reply to the post  #192 by Desidude??

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No new law has to be created, it's already in the books.

That's what most of the people say, do we need to create new laws or reform to fix the problem??

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You cant just send the children back without properly evaluating the reasons why they came over in the first place. It would be an inhumane thing to do and this great country was not founded on turning away the weak and vulnerable. This is not "Operation Babylift" when thousands of children were brought over from Vietnam in 1975 - as a result of an unnecessary war. These children are already in the US and just tossing them back across the border without due process is not the right approach. 

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Oh, and to anybody who thinks the kids should be deported, I have a line from Jon Stewart from his "Daily Show": ""What the f*ck is wrong with you?"

And of course, the antis are quiet on how they would want to pay for their "border security." They are hypocrites.

How does doubling or tripling the tax rate sound?

People really need to start thinking things through instead of mindlessly repeating the bogus stuff from the anti-immigrants.

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So the bottom line is that their is no solution for this illegal immigration.  May be that's the reason why more people are crossing the border. Shame on the people who support illegal immigration and preach about US LAWS to others....

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