H4 221(g) Green - University is not providing Notarized list of employees details their W-2

[na_mu]

University won't provide the notarized list of employees and their W-2s that the US Consulate in New Delhi asked for the 221(g) processing of my wife's H-4 visa. University attorney is mentioning in the letter to the Consulate that providing such documents would breach employer-emoployee relationships.

What should I do?

[Subramanya]

University won't provide the notarized list of employees and their W-2s that the US Consulate in New Delhi asked for the 221(g) processing of my wife's H-4 visa. University attorney is mentioning in the letter to the Consulate that providing such documents would breach employer-emoployee relationships.

---- Let the attorney and the US consulate communicate and correspond with each other. since you cannot do anything remain silent.

---- If they are able to sort it out then it's good. The best is to wait pateintly and I understand it is difficult, else seek a new lawyer to attend to the issue

subramanya

[na_mu]

Another thing recently conveyed by the University (to me) is that my wife, the H-4 visa applicant, is not an university employee and hence it's not their responsibility to support her visa application, although I work as a Research Faculty.

In addition, University is also not willing to release the federal tax returns and quaterly filings of state unemployment wage reports, citing confidential reasons in the letter to Consulate.

If these set of documents are so mandatory for H-related visas at US Consulates, then why not USCIS clearly mention to the petitioner when approving the petition that the beneficiary should be provided with specified set of documents when appearing for H-related visa interviews. Citing only "supporting documents" is a vague diseased term.

My wife had a 10-year visitor visa (got based on USMLE tests) which the Consulate cancelled during the H-4 visa interview. After clearing her USMLE steps in Fall this year, she is now unable to attend the residency interviews, as we ASSUMED that the H-4 visa is a piece of cake and she would be here in November. On a separate note, we also ASSUMED that the Consulate won't cancel her visitor visa if the H-4 goes into some sort of clearance needs. We were horribly wrong and her medical career stuck.

I feel like I and my wife have gone so helpless in a tug of war between the US Consulate & University (for now) & may be USCIS later on (God forbid...NO...if the Consulate sends back the petition back to USCIS w/ a memo that University is unwilling to release all confidential documents).

[Joe.F]

Is the university a public university or a private one?

You may have to hire your own lawyer to get the consulate to back down. A university is not a shady consultant...

[na_mu]

University is a private one.

What could be the consequences if I just submit the letters to the Consulate which the University is providing? University HR (not attorney) is also supplementing the letter with the University President's letter and University's annual financial report. Can Consulate still send the petition back to USCIS?

I understand attorneys deal with such situations. The outside attorney however can not force the University to release the confidential documents; therefore, that attorney has to anyhow deal with only the Consulate. I am still wondering what role an attorney can play here when the University is unwilling to release the confidential documents and provide only the above-mentioned set of documents.

[na_mu]

Not-for-profit institutions have an option of not contributing to the state unemployment wages; rather they can be on reimbursement mode with the state laws - conveyed to me by the University HR.

I've retained a reputable immigration law firm to deal with the US Consulate in New Delhi on my wife's H-4 case that is stuck due to a green 221(g) slip and poor documentation support from the University (which I understand because of confidential reasons). I hope a few grands in attorney's fees will be worth of this uncertain time period.

[pogaru]

Hi na_mu,

any updates in your H4 visa status?

is it got approved? if so, how many weeks it took for approval after you had submitted the 221g docs?

[na_mu]

Here’s a quick recap of events so far...

Mid-Oct

-- Based on my 1st I-797, my wife's H-4 visa outcome was a green 221(g) w/ all documents to be submitted to the local VFS office.

Up to mid-Nov

-- Obtained my 2nd I-797 (H-1B extension renewal using PP).

-- Tried obtaining the University (my H-1B petitioner) and its employees related documents asked in the green 221(g), but the University gave a letter to me (addressed to the Consulate) declining all documentation (employer & its employees related) request by the Consulate citing the documents as private & confidential.

3rd week of Nov

-- Consulted some law firms and finally hired an immigration law firm who believed the Consulate demands are unreasonable, rather than few other law firms who offered to convince the University administration to release the confidential documents.

-- Sent a letter to our state Senator explaining the situation between the Consulate needs and the University’s response; and requested the Senator to work on the Consulate end than on the University side.

-- The key point to be noted here is pressuring the University (through the law firms or Senator) could cost our jobs.

4th week of Nov

-- Worked with the immigration law firm in providing the information they needed to respond to the Consulate request.

-- Senator office acted promptly to my request and also called me to obtain some more information about the situation.

1st week of Dec

-- Worked with the immigration law firm in gathering the pieces of public evidence to support the University’s credibility, standards, and contributions relating to education, research, and training since it’s establishment (around 100 years ago).

-- Senator office sent their inquiry to the Consulate and the Consulate office responded within less than 24 hours by sending an email to my wife asking to appear for a re-interview, instead of submitting all documents to the local VFS office.

2nd week of Dec

-- Revised, re-revised, and finalized the Attorney’s letter arguing the case and assembling all evidences in a logical presentable fashion.

3rd week of Dec

-- The immigration law firm sent its letter to the Consulate, with the University’s letter and providing them all public evidences.

-- Senator office re-sent their inquiry.

-- With both the law firm and Senator contacting the Consulate, they responded again within less than 24 hours, not by sending an email this time, but by calling my wife to see if she got the email asking to appear for the re-interview to which my wife replied that she would appear soon for the re-interview after receiving all original documents from me & her Attorney in US.

In the following week, I would be sending her all documents, including the original ones; and then she would appear for the re-interview.

We will see what happens next.

[pogaru]

@na_mu

Thank you so much for taking time and updating the status. hope you will get the visa soon. Best of luck. once you got the result pls update.

[tanu0926]

Great work.... all the hard work you are putting in will not go waste. Good luck!

Not sure why they are making it so difficult for dependent visas. I am stuck in similar situation as you except that I do not work directly for the employer. I am no where my boat is sailing.

Which consulate did you appear for interview?

[na_mu]

Before my wife appeared for a re-interview, the Consulate updated the Senator Office that my wife’s visa is pending for a re-interview and also respectfully requested the Senator Office to convey her (or me) for the respective re-interview requirement if their Office is still in touch with us. Consecutively, the Senator Office passed the respective Consulate’s response over to me.

Thereafter, my wife’s H-4 visa re-interview (for up to an hour) at the New Delhi Consulate was a complete insult and mental torture because of racial (we are muslim) and personal derogatory comments made by the unprofessional VO, whose every other sentence contained abusive words. To cut the long story into a short one, since the University already declined to provide their employee’s related documents citing the reasons of confidentiality and private; therefore, the VO does not seem to be taking anymore interest in their earlier request during her 1st interview (outcome: a 221(g) green handout with all documents checked). However, according to VO’s viewpoint those documents are “unconfidential.†Rather this time, her past US visits on B1/B2 visa for the USMLE tests were intensively interrogated for her “intention†and that why she stayed in US for up to 6 months (duration stamped on I-94) while the tests generally last for a day or two. Her explanations were always bluntly cut in-between and constantly rebuked as a “lie†and an “unbelievable story.†At last, VO retained her passport and the case is again pending for an administrative processing without any request for the additional documentation.

There may be several (unknown) reasons for such an undeserved experience at the Consulate. I’m unsure how much of that is contributed by the involvements of the Attorney and the Senator Offices since the VO termed the Attorney’s letter, the University’s public evidences presented by the Attorney, and other documents as a total “b*u*l*l*s*h*i*t.†Throughout the interview, VO was forcefully throwing every piece of paper on my wife’s face when she was respectfully submitting any document asked by the VO.

We are both highly trained professionals (I’m a Ph.D. and she is an M.D.) in medical specialties and we can, very well, make a decent respectable living across the world, including India. Selecting US as the country of (present & future) residence and service was never our objective; rather a decent respectable life was one, for sure.

At this point of time, we don’t care what would be the visa outcome, which is now completely immaterial. I was wondering is there a legal way to file a lawsuit against the Consulate for such an unprofessional, torturing, and discriminatory behavior of the VO.

[LonelyMe]

na_mu:

what did your attorney say?

What abt the senator's office?

I am sorry to learn this situation of yours. Every now and then one or the other candidate appearing for Visa, gets harassed or say tortured by the 221G which puts you in a never ending wait state for 70% cases; any by that wait--God know how many are loosing their Jobs. Though all of us are eligible in their own way-otherwise none of us would get the application approved by USCIS. I think the situation should be presented to some 'Indians' (big heads) who back the senators; & urge them to present this issue on our behalf.

i dont know how to start that; did you try writing to the lawyer 'Sheila murthy'?

i dont understand Y the USCIS acts so dumb. They should demand all these letters/docs before approving the case filed by Petitioner.

[Nitin Singh]

Your story is heart wrenching, usually I wouldn't have responded when I have nothing to offer. I know at-least 20 cases where people did get stamped by showing all real bull**** documents in recent times.

While I have posted on many occasion not to involve senator officer deeply and go with supplant desi lawyers. Even now in these hard time people like you are not understanding, these people at consulate are like programmed robot and do not have any common sense whatsoever. You cannot file a lawsuit, visa officer would prove that he was doing his job. Moreover you would now be harassed in future. This is not India where doing 'andolan' would do any good. Big companies with big lobbyists have failed then just imagine what you are in scheme of things. Always remember you are an alien here and your rights are just sham. Anyway if you would just wait w/o much 'halla-bol' you would get visa but with delay. Sometimes VO just pretend to be snob to illicit information.

[rob_dn]

@Namu

I am really sad to hear your story..i cannot believe how the VO's can act in such a unprofessional manner. On second thoughts i am hearing lot of cases from Delhi consulate...looks like a case of sour apple in Delhi consulate.

Anyways will pray for you..God bless you and give you strength to handle this.

[na_mu]

Originally posted by Nitin Singh:

Your story is heart wrenching, usually I wouldn't have responded when I have nothing to offer.

Thank you for the reply though. I still do not see if your response has to offer something, with any valid reasoning.

I know at-least 20 cases where people did get stamped by showing all real bull**** documents in recent times.

What you are trying to get to – real BS documents work or VO should not have used the word “BS†or something else?

While I have posted on many occasion not to involve senator officer deeply and go with supplant desi lawyers.

Please explain your point to go with supplant “desi†lawyers and how they would impact VO’s findings and decision.

Even now in these hard time people like you are not understanding,

Please explain in clear words what you are trying to supplement my understanding with.

these people at consulate are like programmed robot and do not have any common sense whatsoever.

I politely disagree with you here that VO’s are programmed robot without any common sense. If they were like robots, then any VO interviewing the “same†candidate should have “same†concern(s); and the concern(s) should not aggravate or degrade – this is, however, not the case. For the same visa application, concern(s) change from one VO to another as per their capability of brain cells to think.

You cannot file a lawsuit, visa officer would prove that he was doing his job.

I have come to an understanding that the Consulates are diplomatic immunities. Although the Consulates are immune to lawsuits, complaints to the Consulate General or the Ambassador are still a few options to go with.

Moreover you would now be harassed in future.

No one can guarantee what future holds for us.

This is not India where doing 'andolan' would do any good.

From where you got the point that an "andolan" would do well in India.

Big companies with big lobbyists have failed then just imagine what you are in scheme of things.

America is a land of laws which is same for you, me, and any other third party including big companies with big lobbyists.

Always remember you are an alien here and your rights are just sham.

You are wrong – aliens do have their own rights according to US laws. You are seeing aliens’ rights as a sham because you are trying to compare aliens with non-aliens. Your comparison of apples to oranges does not work here. If you compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges, then you would notice the appropriate right findings.

Anyway if you would just wait w/o much 'halla-bol' you would get visa but with delay.

You are misconstruing the healthy and sound discussions and the shared experiences on forums as a “Halla-bol.†Can you please further explain the (irrelevant) relationship between “w/o much Halla-bol†and “getting visa but with delay�

Sometimes VO just pretend to be snob to illicit information.

According to you – “VO’s are programmed robot and do not have any common sense whatsoever†– and now that “sometimes VO just pretend.….†But in reality, robots can not pretend at all. You contradict your own statements. Please think before you compile your words into writing sentences.

[Joe.F]

Originally posted by Nitin Singh:

Your story is heart wrenching, usually I wouldn't have responded when I have nothing to offer.

And indeed, your post has nothing to offer.

It is just an incoherent rant.

Even now in these hard time people like you are not understanding, these people at consulate are like programmed robot and do not have any common sense whatsoever.

And obviously, neither do you.

The consular officers get presented fake documents every day, from shady consultancies.

It is THESE people who are to blame for problems.

Interestingly, your rant talks about anything BUT the shady consultancies who are the root of the problem.

You cannot file a lawsuit, visa officer would prove that he was doing his job.

BS. The US, and that includes the consulates, are bound by US laws. Nobody is above the law here. That seems to be a concept foreign to you.

Moreover you would now be harassed in future.

Wrong. Nobody gets harassed for filing a lawsuit.

Always remember you are an alien here and your rights are just sham.

And yet another false claim.

Laws in the US apply to everybody.

I suggest growing up...

[chander_77]

@na_mu, @JoeF

Nitin has been recently very much against what we write against consulate here and when we mentioned that we intend to approach Senator or local congressman (house of rep). I have been recently denied H1B visa renewal based on emp-vendor-client model as lot of applicants, atleast 50 applicants got rejected in last 1 week in Delhi consulate. There are thousand of H1B are working in EVC model and their H1B petitions are getting approved in US. Nitin like US consulate think its unethical to work with such way. May be he is right but then USCIS also has to be in same line with consulates. Morever If its unethical then why hyd/Mum/chennai has recently approved such cases. Nitin has basically tried to mention Delhi consulate is doing ev thing write and its only we who have got faults and responsible for such problems. Definitely we are as we just did a mistake of travelling to India and lost ev thing.

@na_mu

Why VO harrassed your wife is only because you tried to fight them through Senators and attorneys. It was like a slap on their faces and they clear all their frustation on ur wife during interview. I am not sure how much flexibility you have to find yourself a new job and what other options you may have if you dont get H4 for your wife but when I got denied VISA my aim is to go back to US in whatever way VO wants. Once I am in, I dont care for these damn VO. next time perhaps I wont come to India for stamping or when come again make sure things are in place as they want.But when in US, just do whatever you want to as per law and USCIS. so I am planning get new H1B approved in such way that embassy dont get any excuse. I may be denied again but I will take that as my luck.As you said you and ur wife is well qualified, just go with flow and fight till end. After that its US loss that they dont want talented ppl like you. your talent is with you and can serve any country and qualified ppl like you will always get respect everywhere.

[Attorney_6]

This is an unfortunate story, and, from what was described, it sounds like another example of the consulates overstepping. While the visa might have been granted with the employer documents, I agree that they should not be required for H4s--particularly where there H1 was approved recently and there is no reason to suspect that the facts have changed.

It actually amazes me how many employers will provide documents for H4s, rather than saying I hired X, not X's wife.

Thank you for standing up to this situation. The consulate doesn't like being called out on their improper procedures, but, it is needed or this will never end.

There are ways to take this higher, if the visa isn't approved.

The problem here is that the consulate didn't like getting challenged, so they found another way

[RP120]

You are just being harassed for nothing. I agree for intense scrutiny due to bogus H1B's but after supplying proper evidence and still holding the decision is injustice.

[pontevecchio]

The problem could be the name of the University. I absolutely would not expect any problems if the Op were working in Columbia or YALE or Harvard. It could also be the country of origin. Having seen the towers fall in real time I would expect VO'S to be more cautious.

[na_mu]

Series of events (contd.):

2 weeks after the re-interview (1st week of January), the Consulate requested by e-mail only the petition copy and not the unreasonable list of confidential employer-related documents – as they did in the 1st interview (mid-October) – which employer declined to share. To this e-mail request of the Consulate, Attorney submitted the petition copy via e-mail (through a downloadable weblink as well as an attachment). Indeed, it was not understood why the Consulate would request the petition copy again when it was already submitted via e-mail, before the re-interview, as a part of responding to the 221(g) documents of the 1st interview.

2 months later (we waited because state dot gov website for visa wait times at the New Delhi location said “most administrative processing is resolved within 60 days of applicationâ€) – I called DOS. To my surprise, I was taken aback when I was told that the Consulate is awaiting the petition copy that they requested in January via e-mail. To confirm this, an e-mail inquiry sent by my wife to the Consulate was responded as “we have received the documents sent by you and has been forwarded to the concerned department. You will be contacted by the concerned department whenever required.†With this message from the Consulate, we got happy and relieved that we are not made a “bakra†and our 2 months of waiting time was not wasted; and that the Consulate is doing its job of processing the case and the DOS information may have some time backlog.

1 month later (we waited for another one month because state dot gov website for visa wait times at the New Delhi location also said “before making inquiries about status of administrative processing, applicants or their representatives will need to wait at least 90 days from the date of interview or submission of supplemental documents, whichever is laterâ€) – I requested the Senator and the Attorney Offices to send their inquiries to the Consulate. It was unbelievable when the Consulate responded to their inquiries saying that they are still awaiting the petition copy that they requested in January via e-mail – concomitant with the information what DOS earlier conveyed to me. We finally realized and accepted the fact that we have been made a “bakra†by the Consulate for nearly 3 months following re-interview because the only odd message in the whole picture was the Consulate’s response to my wife that was a total contradiction to what they responded to the Senator/Attorney Offices.

I explained, with e-mail proofs, to the Senator Office about the uncalled events that were happening to my wife visa case. In retrospect, the Senator Office promptly contacted the Consulate about this whole deal with the petition copy despite submission of the documents twice via e-mail by the Attorney. To this inquiry, the Consulate changed its tone and came up with new information – to submit the petition copy to the local VFS center – which they never mentioned in their previous e-mails. Typically, it is a common sense that if something is requested by e-mail, a person will hit the “reply†button and attach any document(s), if requested, unless the e-mail instructs to submit the document(s) via a different mode/channel.

Within 1 week, my wife submitted the petition copy to the local VFS center in New Delhi and received her passport with the stamp.

Based on the events specific to this case, it reminds me of the murthy.com article “H1B and H-4 Visa Applications in India Plagued by 221(g) Refusals: Part 1,†in which the conclusion was relevantly realistic – “The frequent issuance of a 221(g) refusal of the visa without a substantive review of the application is obviously problematic†– and it can further be speculated that the visa could have been issued within a timeframe of 1 week following the

(A) re-interview if (1) the VO could have retained the petition copy during the re-interview itself rather requesting it via e-mail later, or (2) the e-mail from the Consulate in January requesting the petition copy had the complete information about how & where to submit the document, that is, to the local VFS center, and

(B) 1st interview if (1) the VO could have just asked at least 1 question (or employment document) to my wife (whether I am a direct employee or work at the vendor or client site) rather vaguely assuming that I am not a direct employee, and also should have retained the petition copy, together which could have avoided the request for unreasonable list of confidential employer-related documents at first place.

The events of this case, including the unprofessional VO’s behavior, have been reported in a detailed letter to the US Ambassador in New Delhi, in order for the Consulate to improve their working system, if possible.

As pointed here, of course, working for elite institutions could possibly have no red flags from the employer check point but not for other checks related to TAL or background or name (or some security-related variable) – my personal experience few years back while renewing the student visa could not even prevent a 221(g)- stuck for nearly 3 months - despite a Harvard tag in the CV.

For people stuck in a 221(g), I would recommend sending inquires, at least once every 2 weeks, through reliable and influential sources rather waiting (like us) for 2-3 months in ag****ate, although Consulate may not like the intervention of a third party. Because of this uncertain time period of nearly 6 months, one good thing happened on a side note, which is, work towards the immigrant petitions – EB-1A, EB-1B, and NIW – to potentially overcome the whole nonimmigrant visa ordeals in future.

[raj3782]

Na_mu,

Congratulations on this success. Sorry for the mental trauma you gone through all these months.

I need some suggestion from you regarding getting help or not from Senator or local congressman.

In my case, my wife went for H4 visa on 30 Dec 2010 to US Consulate, New Delhi and was given 221g. They asked Petitioner's tax return which were submitted to VFS on 3rd Jan along with LCA, 129, Client Letter and Vendor letter. They gave her 221(g) refusal letter on 3rd Feb, but refusal letter mentioned about denying H1B rather then H4. We thought they might have considered her for H1B case because they asked petitioner tax returns, which were usually never asked for H4s. She went again for interview on 15th Feb with all the documents. They kept my and company's tax returns, and returned her passport saying " We don't see any change in your application since last time". They also kept 221 g refusal letter mentioning H1-B. On 25th Feb we got email with the same 221g letter, same date stamp, the only change they did was changing H1B to H4.

After this I decided to change my petitioner to avoid EVC situation, and become employee with mid vendor, which is quite big company. She appeared again for interview on 25th April. This time it was worst. The moment VO saw her earlier interview information in system and new I-797, he just gave her 221g with every document checked on it. VO was kind of baffled by seeing XXX company, which was mid vendor before, and now became petitioner (client was same both time). I don't understand what confused him. She told him quite a few times about having all the documents, and offered him to see. He didn't listen, switched off his microphone, and asked very rudely to leave the window.

I don't think my employment is violating any US laws under Employer->Client scenario.

Now, I am working with the petitioner and attorney to submit all those employees name, W2, which is quite big task for the company. As per attorney, its practically impossible to provide, and doesn't seems to be interested in providing all information, giving reason as confidentiality.

My question is: Should I contact state senator's or congressman for this case? If yes, when do I need to contact Senator? I mean, once we submit 221g documents to VFS or wait till consulate decision? I can't take chance this time.

I tired to write in detail, just to give you exact picture.

Thanks

raj3782

[na_mu]

Based on what you presented, it appears to be another example of Consulate overstepping for an H4 visa case. From the list of requested documents by the Consulate, strike out the ones which your employer (or vendor or client) are not willing to share – you (or the Consulate or the Attorney) can not force them to disclose their confidential documents – and clearly mention in your brief letter to the Senator Office sticking to the specific facts and reasons given to you by your employer (or vendor or client) for not sharing their confidential documents. Having said this, let the Senator Office alone first touch base with the Consulate and get a reply from them, before you submit any document to the VFS center in consultation with your Attorney.

Since the Consulate has to give every due consideration under the law applicable for a particular visa case, please note that involving a third party is not going to change the visa outcome. It can, however, give you only the case updates regarding where & why the case is stuck and, whether or not the Consulate requires additional information from the visa applicant.

[raj3782]

Na_mu,

After going back and forth with company, attorney was able to provide most of the documents and detailed explanation letter for the confidential Material(W2) which company was unable to provide. Last week my wife submitted the documents to VFS. Is it okay, if I contact with Local senator now or just wait for the consulate decision?

Thanks

Raj

[na_mu]

At this point of time, you may wish to request the Senator Office to contact the Consulate. Good luck.