Multile H1 for H4

[paru51]

Hi All

 

I am on H4 right now and am looking to file H1 this year. My question is, can I file for H1 through multiple companies. Would multiple applications for the same person go into the lottery pool.

 

Thanks in advance,

Pari

[rahul412]

I am on H4 right now and am looking to file H1 this year. My question is, can I file for H1 through multiple companies. Would multiple applications for the same person go into the lottery pool.

You won't file for H1, your employer does.

Can you work for multiple H1 employers after approval??

 

Please don't abuse the H1 program by filing multiple H1's with intention of just to get selected in the lottery. If people do not stop thinking in this way then every year, it will be a lottery system for H1.

[jairichi]

Hi All

 

I am on H4 right now and am looking to file H1 this year. My question is, can I file for H1 through multiple companies. Would multiple applications for the same person go into the lottery pool.

 

Thanks in advance,

Pari

Only an employer can file H1B petition. Multiple employer can file H1B petitions for you.

[pontevecchio]

It will still count as one entry for the H1 lottery.

[JoeF]

It will still count as one entry for the H1 lottery.

Yeah, some people think more applications means more chances, but that is not so.

[rahul412]

Yeah, some people think more applications means more chances, but that is not so.

So if multiple applications for an applicant are selected in the lottery, USCIS will process only one application??

[kums20]

Dear All,

I heard that the lottery happens before opening the packet. In that case how USCIS will find if there are two applications for the same candidate? Insights will be appreicated.

 

Cheers,

kums20

[JoeF]

Dear All,

I heard that the lottery happens before opening the packet. In that case how USCIS will find if there are two applications for the same candidate? Insights will be appreicated.

 

Cheers,

kums20

They never said that the lottery would happen before opening the packets.

In fact, they do open the packets, to make sure that the applications are properly filed.

Way back in 2011, they said:

"For example, during the first five business days of filing for FY 2009, USCIS received approximately 163,000 H-1B petitions, well in excess of the available H-1B cap numbers. Some of the front-end processing activities associated with handling this exceptionally high volume of receipts include, but are not limited to, opening and sorting mail, identifying properly filed petitions, placing petitions through the random selection process, notifying petitioners of selected petitions, receipting fees and entering data for selected petitions, and returning all of the nonselected and improperly filed petitions with associated fees."

 

It is trivial to identify petitions for the same beneficiary. And in fact, they have to do that since they prohibit the same employer filing multiple petitions for the same beneficiary.

Hence, even though USCIS doesn't specify the exact random selection process, it is obvious that multiple applications for the same beneficiary are only counted as one entry in the random selection.

Don't think USCIS is stupid. They know that people try to game the system, and it is trivial to counteract that.

[JoeF]

Oh, and if multiple applications are found, people are likely to get an audit nowadays, e.g., about the source of the H1 fees, since it is illegal for the beneficiary to pay for the H1.

So, as I said, commit to one employer.

[kums20]

Spectacular insight by JoeF. Commend your comments.

[mba83]

They never said that the lottery would happen before opening the packets.

In fact, they do open the packets, to make sure that the applications are properly filed.

Way back in 2011, they said:

"For example, during the first five business days of filing for FY 2009, USCIS received approximately 163,000 H-1B petitions, well in excess of the available H-1B cap numbers. Some of the front-end processing activities associated with handling this exceptionally high volume of receipts include, but are not limited to, opening and sorting mail, identifying properly filed petitions, placing petitions through the random selection process, notifying petitioners of selected petitions, receipting fees and entering data for selected petitions, and returning all of the nonselected and improperly filed petitions with associated fees."

 

It is trivial to identify petitions for the same beneficiary. And in fact, they have to do that since they prohibit the same employer filing multiple petitions for the same beneficiary.

Hence, even though USCIS doesn't specify the exact random selection process, it is obvious that multiple applications for the same beneficiary are only counted as one entry in the random selection.

Don't think USCIS is stupid. They know that people try to game the system, and it is trivial to counteract that.

JoeF, Is this what you think USCIS might be doing or you know what is the process.

No doubt that USCIS can easily identify petitions from different employer for one person.

But there is no restriction on that and it is allowed. There have been update by some of forum members mentioning

both the petitions were selected in lottery.

http://forum.murthy.com/index.php?/topic/71043-multiple-h1-b-applications/

 

So can some one please explain lottery process in detail?

Is there anyone who filed multiple petitions through different employers last year and one got selected in lottery and other did not?

[jairichi]

JoeF, Is this what you think USCIS might be doing or you know what is the process.

No doubt that USCIS can easily identify petitions from different employer for one person.

But there is no restriction on that and it is allowed. There have been update by some of forum members mentioning

both the petitions were selected in lottery.

http://forum.murthy.com/index.php?/topic/71043-multiple-h1-b-applications/

 

So can some one please explain lottery process in detail?

Is there anyone who filed multiple petitions through different employers last year and one got selected in lottery and other did not?

I am not 100% sure how USCIS proceeds with multiple H1B filings for same person from multiple employers.

[rahul412]

JoeF, Is this what you think USCIS might be doing or you know what is the process.

No doubt that USCIS can easily identify petitions from different employer for one person.

But there is no restriction on that and it is allowed. There have been update by some of forum members mentioning

both the petitions were selected in lottery.

http://forum.murthy.com/index.php?/topic/71043-multiple-h1-b-applications/

 

So can some one please explain lottery process in detail?

Is there anyone who filed multiple petitions through different employers last year and one got selected in lottery and other did not?

Take a look at this

 

http://forum.murthy.com/index.php?/topic/63668-multiple-h1b/

 

Do you want your H1 or not??

[JoeF]

JoeF, Is this what you think USCIS might be doing or you know what is the process.

USCIS has said as far back as 2011, in documents in the Federal Register, that they open the applications before the lottery, and that they identify duplicates at that point.

They have to, because certain duplicate filings are not allowed. They also check all applications for completeness, and reject deficient applications, e.g., when the fees are incorrect.

And they always select all applications for a person.

All that would only be possible if multiple applications are only counted as one.

They also nowadays send RFEs and audits for multiple applications.

So, it is very clear that

1. Multiple applications do not increase the chances,

2. Multiple applications can harm the chances due to RFEs and audits.

So, the bottom line: Commit to one employer.

[simk]

You won't file for H1, your employer does.

Can you work for multiple H1 employers after approval??

 

Please don't abuse the H1 program by filing multiple H1's with intention of just to get selected in the lottery. If people do not stop thinking in this way then every year, it will be a lottery system for H1.

Rahul,

 

Generally No one wants to abuse anything. Is USCIS was very fair in making decisions, then people wont be doing multiple H1's with different employers.

 

Lets take a case study, which one of my friend experienced. He applied for his H1b extension with a client letter which is valid for 18 month. Client stated that they he has a project until end of 18 months and this project will be extended for another 2 years or so.

 

Then RFE comes in, asking.. why are you requesting 3 year extension, when you only have 18 months client letter. So my friend talks to his manager, asking for a new client letter, if possible, as anyway project has scope for extension, if can give an extended client letter.

 

So now Manager says that you are a very valuable resource to me, I would like to help you, so he talk to his HR department and gives an extended letter for a period of 3 years and this letter is given to employer and then employer responds to RFE.

 

So now the decision comes in....they approved his H1b extension for only 18 months......

 

My question is.. why in the first place did they raise an RFE, they could have just given the extension for 18 months... why to waste people time and effort to submit additional proof's when their agenda was only to just torture people????

 

 

It is not illegal to file Multiple H1b with different employers, especially when you have a very good offers in your hand from top notch company. I am not supporting stupid consultancy stuff.... but genuine full time employment. The candidate has the right to pick and choose from two offers, even if both are approved. If lets say, one doesn't pick in the lottery, another will have at least chance to get approved... rather than ruining and wasting entire year... doing nothing... or worst case being on H4.

 

Its easy for people sitting on the other end to tell what is morally right or wrong. If it is not illegal.. it is not wrong. Employers don't waste a single minute when they are ready to lay you off or fire you, even on first day on full time employment. When they have a right to change their mind... why cant we????

[chakrakr]

Take a look at this

 

http://forum.murthy.com/index.php?/topic/63668-multiple-h1b/

 

Do you want your H1 or not??

 

I have doubts regarding veracity of this post (by tina30) .

She made a post on June 18, 2013 saying "On H-1 I changed my employer. ...  "   and then continuning her question.

Then on 18 September 2013  she writes this post where she speaks about RFE on multiple H1. 

 

If she had a H1 in June ,  why did she apply for a lottery and how come she got RFEs in September ??? 

 

Further to this, in http://forum.murthy.com/index.php?/topic/72359-h-1b-cap-exemption-issues/page-2   Attorney_25 writes as follows -- "Two petitions can be filed at the same time by different employers."    USCIS has said that same employer cannot file multiple petitions for same beneficiary but no where they said that different employers cannot file  petitions for same beneficiary , nor have they mentioned anything if they consider all these petitions as one or multiple.  

 

Having said that,  with USCIS being as strict ,  it would be foolish for someone to pay a consulting company to file an H1 .   The H1  will never see the light.  However,  if a person has two genuine employment offer ,  there should nto be any issue if both employers file H1 .  I will not go for moral/ethical questions (since the employers do not bother about these questions when they layoff a person on H1).

[JoeF]

It is not illegal to file Multiple H1b with different employers, especially when you have a very good offers in your hand from top notch company. I am not supporting stupid consultancy stuff.... but genuine full time employment. The candidate has the right to pick and choose from two offers, even if both are approved. If lets say, one doesn't pick in the lottery, another will have at least chance to get approved.

Please read the other posts.

If a person has multiple applications, all get selected, because there are no better chances with multiple applications. Multiple applications are counted as one.

[rahul412]

Is USCIS was very fair in making decisions, then people wont be doing multiple H1's with different employers.

If you think that USCIS is not fair in making decisions, then you can simple avoid USCIS. But you have an option to question or request them why it was not a fair decisio, like MTR etc.

 

 

 

Lets take a case study, which one of my friend experienced. He applied for his H1b extension with a client letter which is valid for 18 month. Client stated that they he has a project until end of 18 months and this project will be extended for another 2 years or so.

 

Then RFE comes in, asking.. why are you requesting 3 year extension, when you only have 18 months client letter. So my friend talks to his manager, asking for a new client letter, if possible, as anyway project has scope for extension, if can give an extended client letter.

 

So now Manager says that you are a very valuable resource to me, I would like to help you, so he talk to his HR department and gives an extended letter for a period of 3 years and this letter is given to employer and then employer responds to RFE.

 

So now the decision comes in....they approved his H1b extension for only 18 months......

So did his employer's attorney asked USCIS why??

 

 

 

Its easy for people sitting on the other end to tell what is morally right or wrong. If it is not illegal.. it is not wrong. Employers don't waste a single minute when they are ready to lay you off or fire you, even on first day on full time employment. When they have a right to change their mind... why cant we????

That's not illegal, but that's misuse. By filing multiple H1's a genuine candidate will loose his chance to get his H1. If you know which is the best offer then go for that before filing multiple H1's. By avoiding multiple H1's you can avoid lottery, so that every one will get their H1's.

[mba83]

Thanks  rahul412, JoeF and simk for your valuable insight.

Here I am talking about two good offers from genuine top notch companies.

I have gone through L1 rejection with no good reason from USCIS and have already wasted more than 6 months.

 

I don't think that people filing multiple petition has direct impact of another person loosing his chance for the year.

I think uscis keeps some applications in waiting list and processes them if such duplicate entries are selected in lottery.

 

If filing multiple petitions through different employers is gonna increase my chances in lottery without

any loss of one visa for some one else then I would definitely go for it.

Should I get legal advice from a lawyer on this before proceeding?

[mba83]

Also go through reply from Attorney_25 in following post, check "2. Petitions by multiple employers."

http://forum.murthy.com/index.php?/topic/71540-h-1b-cap-issues/

[JoeF]

Thanks  rahul412, JoeF and simk for your valuable insight.

Here I am talking about two good offers from genuine top notch companies.

I have gone through L1 rejection with no good reason from USCIS and have already wasted more than 6 months.

 

I don't think that people filing multiple petition has direct impact of another person loosing his chance for the year.

I think uscis keeps some applications in waiting list and processes them if such duplicate entries are selected in lottery.

Actually, that's not how it works.

What you describe would have an effect on other people. If there are ***** of different color in the pot, but one color is repeated, the chance of getting that duplicate color drawn is increased, the chance of others is decreased. Probability class 101.

USCIS identifies duplicates before the drawing, so, the duplicate petitions count as one only. That keeps it fair.

[simk]

If you think that USCIS is not fair in making decisions, then you can simple avoid USCIS. But you have an option to question or request them why it was not a fair decisio, like MTR etc.

 

 

So did his employer's attorney asked USCIS why??

 

 

That's not illegal, but that's misuse. By filing multiple H1's a genuine candidate will loose his chance to get his H1. If you know which is the best offer then go for that before filing multiple H1's. By avoiding multiple H1's you can avoid lottery, so that every one will get their H1's.

Hey, If all applications are considered as only one entry as JOEF said.. then what is the problem ???

 

Then there is nothing like ruining other's opportunities.. if all applications are considered as one?????

[rahul412]

Hey, If all applications are considered as only one entry as JOEF said.. then what is the problem ???

 

Then there is nothing like ruining other's opportunities.. if all applications are considered as one?????

In this case they didn't, that's why two H1's got selected. 

[JoeF]

Hey, If all applications are considered as only one entry as JOEF said.. then what is the problem ???

 

Then there is nothing like ruining other's opportunities.. if all applications are considered as one?????

It's not ruining other peoples' chances. It may be ruining the chances of the person who files multiple applications.

That's why it is best to commit to one employer, to only have one application.

[Attorney_25]

...

Then RFE comes in, asking.. why are you requesting 3 year extension, when you only have 18 months client letter. So my friend talks to his manager, asking for a new client letter, if possible, as anyway project has scope for extension, if can give an extended client letter.

 

So now Manager says that you are a very valuable resource to me, I would like to help you, so he talk to his HR department and gives an extended letter for a period of 3 years and this letter is given to employer and then employer responds to RFE.

 

So now the decision comes in....they approved his H1b extension for only 18 months......

 

My question is.. why in the first place did they raise an RFE, they could have just given the extension for 18 months... why to waste people time and effort to submit additional proof's when their agenda was only to just torture people????

 This is an "error" by USCIS. I was able to have a corrected approval notice issued in such a case by emailing the premium processing unit.