Legal Immigration Reform

[Desi Dude]

This is to all the people who have been waiting for years in line to get their GC, who have worked hard, who have done everything legally, followed every process, sacrificed their promotions and their families suffered just coz they abided by the law.

 

The only way Immigration Reform will pass is if we segregate us from illegals. Some in congress want to club legals with illegals and thats why the comprehensive reform will never pass. On the other hand, no congressman is against legal immigration, they will pass it if it is an independent bill.

 

We need to publicize that we have nothing in common with illegals. Infact most of us are against illegals since there actions were a direct contrast to ours. Deal with them separately and only after every legal person gets residency. Those who want to combine the two are insulting the hardworking middle class who followed all the rules.

[Belle]

No Congressman is against legal immigration??? Wow, aren't you uninformed... LOL!

[tusharvk]

I hear your frustration. I remember during 2nd term of Bush presidency the same happened. Later there were some piecemeal legislation to improve life and lot of legals (20 month opt, etc.)

Something similar may come along this time for legals (H4 EAD may happen, for example).

Comprehensive reform did not look that promising for legals anyway.

[JoeF]

We need to publicize that we have nothing in common with illegals.

Then start by speaking out against shady consulting companies, and start speaking out against fraud universities who give out CPT to people in violation of the law.

From the Bible:

"Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye."

[tusharvk]

Then start by speaking out against shady consulting companies, and start speaking out against fraud universities who give out CPT to people in violation of the law.

ok. so let us assume what you say is correct and there is abuse in the system.

That does not mean that legal immigration does not need reforming though.

 

Clearly there is lack of public support on this issue despite the leadership shown by senate; hence, CIR is not moving forward in congress; so at least piecemeal legal reform must be advocated.

[rahul412]

Then start by speaking out against shady consulting companies, and start speaking out against fraud universities who give out CPT to people in violation of the law.

Well said. I have the same advice.

My opinion: under this reform, legal immigrants should be treated equally along with undocumented immigrants.

[maverick41]

I had written a lengthy comment in the legislation section- but I will say it again dividing us into groups is not going to help. All the recent sympathy and support that has been expressed towards legal immigration is because of the push to legalize undocumented immigrants.

 

Citizens are not going to be sympathetic with foreign professionals with good jobs who earn more than the average American complaining that they have to wait longer in line. 

[shandan]

For long I have been reading on this discussion on forums and have kept my quite, but there is just one thing which keeps irking me beyond reason, why on this forum the "Seniors" are so averse of the idea of segregating legal immigration from the illegal immigration.

 

I agree upon all the facts and ideologies which gets thrown about we all are in the same boat and have same issues we all are suffering, but this still begs to ask the question is it really the same issue ?

 

No doubt illegals are not living in a promise land and agreed have grave issues and all the other things which they have to go through, but the fact to the matter is, it is by choice, a choice they made for themselves or their parents made it for them (its called life).

 

On the otherhand it is also correct when folks say for the legals when they complain about the wait that you knew what you are buying into and all the law jibrish, are these folks not humans? should they stop expecting something good for them, what is so wrong in asking in all fairness that since they have been following the law to the dot, that they get priority, after all life is not all that rosey for these folks either, they go through issues which many of us on this forum are well aware of, is it not fair that they ask for there issue to be looked in a different light? And not get buried with the ideological differences in the Congress about whether or not illegals should get a path to citizenship?

 

There are bad apples in every scenario but it is not an exception only for legals who work for consulting companies, some of them shady, but wouldn't it be the case with some of the illegals how have commited crimes/felnoies will also be benefitted with the CIR, since they never got caught?

 

Is not paying Taxes not a crime? Is being present after the approved stay not a Crime? I mean come on, it is ok to have an opinion (and every individual has a right to have there own, which I have no intent to challenge), but you should not be telling people who want to have the issue with legals dealt seperately that they are incensitive and unreasonable.

 

Again, I just wanted to have my thoughts out, everyone has the right to have there own, and I do to. I do not intent to spark a debate here.

 

Hopefully there is some resolution soon on this CIR in congress, and good folks get some relief.

 

Happy Holidays.

[catx]

As previously posted by maverick41 and myself on the Legislation forum (http://forum.murthy.com/index.php?/topic/57484-immigration-reform/page-6, page 6, posts 101 onward) ...

 

Separating fixes and reform of immigration laws, regulations, and rules for legal aliens and immigrants from (and before) those addressing the issues of illegal immigration may make sense ideologically, but at the cost of ignoring a lot of the politics and realities of the situation.

 

Of course, individuals and groups have every right and are free to voice their opinion, proactively advocate, and lobby for separate immigration reform for legal aliens.

 

However the questions are ... Does this make sense when there is not much chance of success ("barking up a tree", "tilting at a windmill").  Why not put the effort into advocating and lobbing for legal and illegal immigration reforms, where there is a better chance of a positive outcome.  Also, and very importantly, no one wins when immigrant groups (legal and/or illegal) argue with each other over relative reforms and benefits.

[JoeF]

ok. so let us assume what you say is correct and there is abuse in the system.

That does not mean that legal immigration does not need reforming though.

 

Clearly there is lack of public support on this issue despite the leadership shown by senate; hence, CIR is not moving forward in congress; so at least piecemeal legal reform must be advocated.

The thing is, before you start talking about illegals, clean up in your own backyard, i.e., with people who sign up with shady consultants, with people who sign up with fraud universities to do CPT, etc. Just today, there was another post about CPT here, which showed the desire to abuse it.

Pointing at illegals and claiming to be "better" is hypocritical, when people claiming to be "legal" don't get paid on bench, sign up with fraudulent diploma mills, etc.

[JoeF]

I had written a lengthy comment in the legislation section- but I will say it again dividing us into groups is not going to help. All the recent sympathy and support that has been expressed towards legal immigration is because of the push to legalize undocumented immigrants.

 

Citizens are not going to be sympathetic with foreign professionals with good jobs who earn more than the average American complaining that they have to wait longer in line. 

Indeed.

People on H1 earn more than the majority of Americans. And in the IT world, sentiment against people on H1 who are seen to push wages down is strong.

The "pushing wages down" stuff comes from abuse like not paying on bench. Any consulting company can undercut prices if they don't pay their people as they are required to do.

So, anybody who signed up with such shady consulting companies, anybody who is not paid on bench, makes immigration reform, for both legals and illegals, harder.

As I said, people need to clean up in their own backyard first.

[Belle]

Let's just say that the use of the word "segregation" in the context of "keep me separate from those dirty people" ain't going to win you any supporters, among "seniors" or Americans likewise.

 

As a practical issue, however, is that legal immigration reform bills, even piecemeal, can only pass with some relieve to illegal immigrants. You can swallow your pride, and try to hitch a ride, or you can spit self-righteous affirmations and be left as is.

[tusharvk]

The thing is, before you start talking about illegals, clean up in your own backyard, i.e., with people who sign up with shady consultants, with people who sign up with fraud universities to do CPT, etc. Just today, there was another post about CPT here, which showed the desire to abuse it.

Pointing at illegals and claiming to be "better" is hypocritical, when people claiming to be "legal" don't get paid on bench, sign up with fraudulent diploma mills, etc.

So if there is abuse in the system, what do you advocate legals to do? fix the abuse or lobby for improving their life and lot. These "legals" are not abusing; now there may be elements who are gaming the system to abuse.

 

Now let us digress and talk about CPT: in the CIR that passed the senate this year, was there any mention to fix the abuse? If so, great news they addressed your concern. If not, why not write to your senators and ask them why this issue was not fixed. In the present context (without CIR), what are the laws regarding CPT? is it allowed or not?  ok. enough digression.

[tusharvk]

As a practical issue, however, is that legal immigration reform bills, even piecemeal, can only pass with some relieve to illegal immigrants. You can swallow your pride, and try to hitch a ride, or you can spit self-righteous affirmations and be left as is.

There are piecemeal reform for legals all the time. AC21, 20 month OPT, Masters' quota for H1b, etc. Were there associated reform doled out to illegals also at the same time? I can think of only DACA recently; but perhaps you can give more examples.

[rahul412]

The thing is, before you start talking about illegals, clean up in your own backyard, i.e., with people who sign up with shady consultants, with people who sign up with fraud universities to do CPT, etc. Just today, there was another post about CPT here, which showed the desire to abuse it.

Pointing at illegals and claiming to be "better" is hypocritical, when people claiming to be "legal" don't get paid on bench, sign up with fraudulent diploma mills, etc.

People abused CPT program or working for shady consulting firms are arrested or fined according to law. But what about the people who abused/exploited  these undocumented aliens?? Nothing is mentioned about them in this reform and in my opinion these are the people who are abusing the LAW. What about them??

 

In my opinion 'clean up in their own backyard first' means get raid of these people first who are responsible for increase in no.of undocumented people.

[JoeF]

Yes, anybody talking about "segregation" first needs to get an education in history. Such person is certainly not educated, and, quite frankly, shouldn't get an H1, nor a GC.

How despicable to even use that word in the immigration context.

[JoeF]

People abused CPT program or working for shady consulting firms are arrested or fined according to law. But what about the people who abused/exploited  these undocumented aliens?? Nothing is mentioned about them in this reform and in my opinion these are the people who are abusing the LAW. What about them??

 

In my opinion 'clean up in their own backyard first' means get raid of these people first who are responsible for increase in no.of undocumented people.

The OP claimed that he and people like him are "better" than illegals. If that's true, then he should help getting rid of the fraud in the H1 program, by shady desi consulting companies AND the people who sign up with them, by getting rid of fraud universities AND the people who sign up with them.

ONLY THEN has he any moral right to claim to be better than others.

Unless and until he does that, he is just a hypocrite.

There are only a few people here and on other forums who consistently speak out against this fraud, and way too often we get harassed. In fact, the OP harassed me for speaking out against abuse. He is clearly a hypocrite, and has absolutely no business and no right to complain about illegals.

[Belle]

There are piecemeal reform for legals all the time. AC21, 20 month OPT, Masters' quota for H1b, etc. Were there associated reform doled out to illegals also at the same time? I can think of only DACA recently; but perhaps you can give more examples.

AC21 was the last law, singed by Clinton, in 2000. That's 13 years ago. Everything else was administrative action. No, there was not much success in bringing up any good bills for legal-only immigrants over the last two presidents. And not IV did not try....

[Belle]

Yes, anybody talking about "segregation" first needs to get an education in history. Such person is certainly not educated, and, quite frankly, shouldn't get an H1, nor a GC.

How despicable to even use that word in the immigration context.

Well, some of them are a bit tone deaf. Just another reason not to worry about them barking up the wrong tree.

[Desi Dude]

Don't fall for what the 'Seniors' are saying, they are more for illegal reform than anything else. If you notice they don't say a single word against illegals. And if we criticize illegal they attack the legals. They would go out of their way to pinpoint problems with legals to protect illegals. These 'Seniors' are insulting all of us who are honest and law abiding.

 

This topic was not started to talk about illegals or to talk about problems with H1B. We just want to separate/segregate (check the dictionary and don't incite hatred) our cause with anyone else's. Period.

[JoeF]

I suggest you start checking the dictionary and history first.

Anybody who uses that word is not worthy of any discussion.

Get lost.

[Belle]

Don't fall for what the 'Seniors' are saying, they are more for illegal reform than anything else. If you notice they don't say a single word against illegals. And if we criticize illegal they attack the legals. They would go out of their way to pinpoint problems with legals to protect illegals. These 'Seniors' are insulting all of us who are honest and law abiding.

 

This topic was not started to talk about illegals or to talk about problems with H1B. We just want to separate/segregate (check the dictionary and don't incite hatred) our cause with anyone else's. Period.

Well, after all, I think, you should segregate yourself from illegals and their cause. This will only result with illegals getting relief, and people like you won't get any. Karma. It bites.

[cap-gap]

Don't fall for what the 'Seniors' are saying, they are more for illegal reform than anything else. If you notice they don't say a single word against illegals. And if we criticize illegal they attack the legals. They would go out of their way to pinpoint problems with legals to protect illegals. These 'Seniors' are insulting all of us who are honest and law abiding.

 

This topic was not started to talk about illegals or to talk about problems with H1B. We just want to separate/segregate (check the dictionary and don't incite hatred) our cause with anyone else's. Period.

 

But the tone of your post implied a clear prejudice. If you want legal immigration bill separated, it is you that have to work on that. The legislators are focused on illegal immigration because it is a problem to the country.

 

The laws for legal immigration are already in place. The delays being encountered for legal immigrants are not their problem but yours.

 

Support for legal immigration has always been there. What is lacking is initiative, NOT from the legislators but from the legal applicants.

 

A straight forward example is, 99% 'legals' never come back to this forum to give advice as soon they reach the shore..it is those three or four 'seniors' that's keeping this forum alive..

[chakrakr]

The thing is, before you start talking about illegals, clean up in your own backyard, i.e., with people who sign up with shady consultants, with people who sign up with fraud universities to do CPT, etc. Just today, there was another post about CPT here, which showed the desire to abuse it.

Pointing at illegals and claiming to be "better" is hypocritical, when people claiming to be "legal" don't get paid on bench, sign up with fraudulent diploma mills, etc.

 

People who sign up with shady consultants  face the music when they go for Visa stamping or Extension/transfer

People who goes to fraud universities and work  on CPT get ankle bracelet and deportation

People who come illegaly are doled with things like DACCA .    So what is your argument ?

 

And BTW,  if it is despicable to even the word  "segregation" in the immigration context  , why do you support GC queue based on country of birth ?   In your words -- you will have the moral rights to speak against "segregation"  only when you oppose the country quota .  Did you do that   or are you also a hypocrite ? 

[JoeF]

The OP was one of the guys who wanted to screw over ROW for his own petty benefit.

His new attempt to screw over other people will fail even more spectacularly.

The only way forward is to work WITH other people. Working against other people will always fail.

His motto seems to be, if he doesn't get things, others shouldn't get anything, either.

He is just a selfish guy with no consideration for anybody else. And using inflammatory language will only result in immediate failure. Nobody wants to have anything to do with racist people.