Indian citizenship for US born kid

[tusharvk]

The VERY practical solution is to get a US passport for the child.

Very easy, very practical. If the parents don't want the child to be a US citizen, they need to have the birth abroad. If they think that's "not practical", they should not have come to the US AT all. Nobody forced them to come here.

Having your cake and eating it too is not possible.

having cake and eating it? what cake are you talking about.

 

These people do not want USC for their kids and but are working in the US on temporary assignment; so they are going to have the baby birth here. There are all sorts of practical considerations during pregnancy which may prevent traveling.

 

People are taking indefensible positions and getting locked into a corner.

[tusharvk]

You would have to ask them.

A US-born child needs a US passport to travel. Period.

What some foreign country's consulate does is irrelevant.

I did not ask you this question.

Just drawing parallel between what US consulate will do in India and what India consulate does in the US.

 

One point is important and people may be forgetting it: In the past there may have been desire all around to some how get a US pasport for a baby and hence some people having child birth in the US. It may still be important for some to have this. Reality is that we are discussing people who are not interested in this route (proportion of these type of people is growing, but that is a separate topic). They are here on temporary assignment and want to raise their child as Indian citizen (not dual citizen).

This same thing will happen when a US couple has a baby in India because they are visiting there.

US consulate will do the same thing that Indian consulate does here.

[nr2006]

Then they should make sure that the child isn't born in the US.

It is REALLY SIMPLE. There are 9 months to decide on that.

So, once again, there is NO problem.

Case closed.

 

Been reading this interesting topic..and might consider to be a volunteer when I have my kid !!

But in regards to your quote, you don't make any sense. You are taking sides in your argument rather than stating facts. I understand your partiality to US, but people might have their own reasons after what was done to the Japanese (US citizens of Japanese descent) or/and the Native Americans ( who were here before the laws were made)

People have their reasons to choose where they like and undo if they don't like. The OP was asking a question to see what are his options of having a child in the US and living in India as an Indian citizen.

 

In regards to other quotes on multiple citizenship...technically a person can have multiple citizenship's/passports..but to become a US naturalized citizen you have to renounce allegiance to another country (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizenship_in_the_United_States). The other citizenship/passport you carry technically is a travel document good in times of peace.

[JoeF]

Been reading this interesting topic..and might consider to be a volunteer when I have my kid !!

But in regards to your quote, you don't make any sense. You are taking sides in your argument rather than stating facts. I understand your partiality to US, but people might have their own reasons after what was done to the Japanese (US citizens of Japanese descent) or/and the Native Americans ( who were here before the laws were made)

People have their reasons to choose where they like and undo if they don't like. The OP was asking a question to see what are his options of having a child in the US and living in India as an Indian citizen.

 

In regards to other quotes on multiple citizenship...technically a person can have multiple citizenship's/passports..but to become a US naturalized citizen you have to renounce allegiance to another country (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizenship_in_the_United_States). The other citizenship/passport you carry technically is a travel document good in times of peace.

First, if people "have their own reasons", then they should not have the child birth in the US. It is very simple, very easy.

Having your cake and eating it too doesn't work. It is THAT simple.

 

Second, yes, the US oath has a renunciation clause. But other countries may not care about that. For example, regardless of the renunciation clause, Canada considers a naturalized US citizen to still be a Canadian citizen, unless the person renounces Canadian citizenship in front of a Canadian official. And that is not required by the US. In fact, if such a thing would be required, it would have to be done before the US naturalization, which would render the person stateless, which in turn would create a whole bunch of other issues.

I do have dual citizenship, due to a similar setup.

I show my US passport when entering the US, I may show the foreign passport elsewhere.

[JoeF]

The CBP link does not say "don't go somewhere else from there, or come back from somewhere else.".    So a USC child not having a US Passport ,  can come to Canada on a Canadian Visa  and enter US through land using the US Birth Certificate .   Agreed,  not a clean solution but technically possible.

 

Also  agreed it is only for children under 16  but are not we discussing about children in this thread ??

It says "from", not "traveling through".

And children are minors until age 18.

 

That's the same kind of mindset that gets people to sign up with unaccredited diploma mills ("but they have SEVIS approval..." as if that means anything.)

Trying to use some obscure loophole will always come back to bite. Why in the world would somebody pine for punishment?

[chakrakr]

It says "from", not "traveling through".

And children are minors until age 18.

 

That's the same kind of mindset that gets people to sign up with unaccredited diploma mills ("but they have SEVIS approval..." as if that means anything.)

Trying to use some obscure loophole will always come back to bite. Why in the world would somebody pine for punishment?

 

1) I have already mentioned in the first post  that this is not a "clean" solution but technically possible. It is NOT A loophole but something documented and published by CBP. 

 

2) It is YOUR interpretation that one cannot travel from another country to Canada/Mexico and then can enter US through land using Birth Certificate.   This is NOT an interpretation which has been provided by CBP.  On a side note,  it is interesting to note that a Green Card holder can enter using just the Green Card  and does not even need a Passport. 

 

3) Since this CBP rule covers children under 16,  the only "left outs"  are those between 16 and 18.    So are you agreeing we are all settled for children under 16 ?    If not,  there is no point bringing up the age .

[JoeF]

It is not possible, you are just trying very hard to find a loophole, anything that could potentially be a loophole.

 

[tusharvk]

First, if people "have their own reasons", then they should not have the child birth in the US. It is very simple, very easy.

Having your cake and eating it too doesn't work. It is THAT simple.

 

Second, yes, the US oath has a renunciation clause. But other countries may not care about that. For example, regardless of the renunciation clause, Canada considers a naturalized US citizen to still be a Canadian citizen, unless the person renounces Canadian citizenship in front of a Canadian official. And that is not required by the US. In fact, if such a thing would be required, it would have to be done before the US naturalization, which would render the person stateless, which in turn would create a whole bunch of other issues.

I do have dual citizenship, due to a similar setup.

I show my US passport when entering the US, I may show the foreign passport elsewhere.

please stay focused on the points here. congratulations on your dual citizenship but it is not relevant here.

 

People(USC couple visiting in India or Indian couple visiting US) are talking about having child birth where it is convenient to them.

[tusharvk]

 

 

2) It is YOUR interpretation that one cannot travel from another country to Canada/Mexico and then can enter US through land using Birth Certificate.   This is NOT an interpretation which has been provided by CBP.  On a side note,  it is interesting to note that a Green Card holder can enter using just the Green Card  and does not even need a Passport. 

it is curious for a GC holder to be able to enter without a passport.

do they even stamp passport at a land POE? my experience is no.

[chakrakr]

It is not possible, you are just trying very hard to find a loophole, anything that could potentially be a loophole.

 

It is just you who says it is not possible. It is only you who says it is a loophole.   CBP  does not seem to agree with you .

 

And,  if you think it is not possible ,  why did you bring up the age limit question ?  It does not matter right ?

[JoeF]

please stay focused on the points here. congratulations on your dual citizenship but it is not relevant here.

 

People(USC couple visiting in India or Indian couple visiting US) are talking about having child birth where it is convenient to them.

Then I suggest YOU stop the off-topic posts.

 

The BOTTOM LINE: A CHILD BORN IN THE US IS A US CITIZEN! PERIOD. END OF STORY!

Geez.

[chakrakr]

it is curious for a GC holder to be able to enter without a passport.

do they even stamp passport at a land POE? my experience is no.

 

Not sure.   Here is the link   https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/1191/kw/name%20change%20on%20green%20card/suggested/1  

 

 

"U.S. LPRs do not need a passport to enter the United States as per (8 CFR 211.1(a)),"

[tusharvk]

Then I suggest YOU stop the off-topic posts.

 

The BOTTOM LINE: A CHILD BORN IN THE US IS A US CITIZEN! PERIOD. END OF STORY!

Geez.

not really. That is what you have been insisting and unconvincingly.

[nr2006]

It is not possible, you are just trying very hard to find a loophole, anything that could potentially be a loophole.

 

 

There are loop holes in many laws, by design to include every one.

 

There is no loophole about a kid born to Indian parents living in the US,  applying for a Indian passport when the Indian law allows it. Every sovereign state which has a consulate in a foreign country is bound to, by their own laws. So, in this case the parents( with a minor kid) can decide what passport they would like to apply for.

[nr2006]

Then I suggest YOU stop the off-topic posts.

 

The BOTTOM LINE: A CHILD BORN IN THE US IS A US CITIZEN! PERIOD. END OF STORY!

Geez.

 

A Child born in the US has a US birth certificate which state's where s/he is born.  The kid's (who is a minor) parents have the authority to apply for a country passport which allows them, as per the country's laws

[nr2006]

First, if people "have their own reasons", then they should not have the child birth in the US. It is very simple, very easy.

Having your cake and eating it too doesn't work. It is THAT simple.

 

 

 

You are trying to FORCE your views on others.

 

Regarding the Canadian citizenship, like I said its simply a Canadian travel permt as you have renounced your Canadian citizenship when you took your US oath. 

[DTWCanadian]

Consider this scenario which has occurred to someone I know.

 

A US born child with an Indian passport. If and when the child needs to travel to the US, the Indian emigration will ask for a valid entry document to the US before letting the child depart India. That would necessitate a visa from the US. US, of course will deny the visa since the child is a USC by birth.

 

So, the bigger problem might not be how to enter the US, rather, how to leave India in the first place. 

 

Back to first paragraph above. If the US denies a visa and issues a US passport instead at the local consulate, then it would invalidate the Indian citizenship. Now if the child shows up at Indian emigration with the US passport, the Indian officials would like to see the entry date and an Indian visa on the US passport, both of which would not be available since the child held an Indian passport before. This would trigger a claim of illegal entry/stay in India by the child.

 

The above scenario happened to someone. A lot of bribe, high level Govt intervention and several months were consumed in this fiasco.

[JoeF]

You are trying to FORCE your views on others.

 

Regarding the Canadian citizenship, like I said its simply a Canadian travel permt as you have renounced your Canadian citizenship when you took your US oath. 

Sigh.

I tell people what the law says.

And as for the Canadian citizenship, that continues to be Canadian citizenship under Canadian law.

I suggest you start reading up on these things instead of posting BS.

[JoeF]

Consider this scenario which has occurred to someone I know.

 

A US born child with an Indian passport. If and when the child needs to travel to the US, the Indian emigration will ask for a valid entry document to the US before letting the child depart India. That would necessitate a visa from the US. US, of course will deny the visa since the child is a USC by birth.

 

So, the bigger problem might not be how to enter the US, rather, how to leave India in the first place. 

 

Back to first paragraph above. If the US denies a visa and issues a US passport instead at the local consulate, then it would invalidate the Indian citizenship. Now if the child shows up at Indian emigration with the US passport, the Indian officials would like to see the entry date and an Indian visa on the US passport, both of which would not be available since the child held an Indian passport before. This would trigger a claim of illegal entry/stay in India by the child.

 

The above scenario happened to someone. A lot of bribe, high level Govt intervention and several months were consumed in this fiasco.

Yes, that's the other major problem with this weird Indian rule.

I am not concerned about that here, though, since that's Indian law. Let Indians fix that if they are affected by it.

My main thing here is about US law.

[JoeF]

You are trying to FORCE your views on others.

 

Regarding the Canadian citizenship, like I said its simply a Canadian travel permt as you have renounced your Canadian citizenship when you took your US oath. 

And btw, we are talking about child citizenship by birth here.

Don't post off-topic stuff.

You can create another thread to talk about naturalization issues. Thank you.

[tusharvk]

Consider this scenario which has occurred to someone I know.

 

A US born child with an Indian passport. If and when the child needs to travel to the US, the Indian emigration will ask for a valid entry document to the US before letting the child depart India. That would necessitate a visa from the US. US, of course will deny the visa since the child is a USC by birth.

 

So, the bigger problem might not be how to enter the US, rather, how to leave India in the first place. 

 

Back to first paragraph above. If the US denies a visa and issues a US passport instead at the local consulate, then it would invalidate the Indian citizenship. Now if the child shows up at Indian emigration with the US passport, the Indian officials would like to see the entry date and an Indian visa on the US passport, both of which would not be available since the child held an Indian passport before. This would trigger a claim of illegal entry/stay in India by the child.

 

The above scenario happened to someone. A lot of bribe, high level Govt intervention and several months were consumed in this fiasco.

 

The child (parents) could have just traveled to another country other than the US and legitimately applied for a visa to visit the same.

[tusharvk]

Consider this scenario which has occurred to someone I know.

 

A US born child with an Indian passport. If and when the child needs to travel to the US, the Indian emigration will ask for a valid entry document to the US before letting the child depart India. That would necessitate a visa from the US. US, of course will deny the visa since the child is a USC by birth.

 

So, the bigger problem might not be how to enter the US, rather, how to leave India in the first place. 

 

Back to first paragraph above. If the US denies a visa and issues a US passport instead at the local consulate, then it would invalidate the Indian citizenship. Now if the child shows up at Indian emigration with the US passport, the Indian officials would like to see the entry date and an Indian visa on the US passport, both of which would not be available since the child held an Indian passport before. This would trigger a claim of illegal entry/stay in India by the child.

 

Upon more thorough perusal: seriously? what is this illegal entry/stay you are talking about? The child entered using Indian passport which has the stamp that shows the entry date of this child. Even though the passport is now cancelled because the child renounced Indian citizenship. Attested photocopies of the passport prior to cancellation would be available too.  No illegal entry or illegal stay ever occurred. May be there is more to the story that you have mentioned here.

Secondly, the consulate just went ahead and issued US passport even if the parents did not ask for one. That is curious; do they not have to request the passport to be issued it?

Further, I do not think getting US passport is that easy for minors especially at a consulate abroad.Both parents have to appear and submit proof of USC for their child. If they registered birth at indian consulate in the US, I doubt the birth certificate issued by the indian consulate in the US would itself be sufficient evidence for obtaining US passport.

Many details are missing from the example you have given. Could you please elaborate on these points?

[tusharvk]

You are trying to FORCE your views on others.

 

Regarding the Canadian citizenship, like I said its simply a Canadian travel permt as you have renounced your Canadian citizenship when you took your US oath. 

Moreover, PR or USC can travel to canada anytime they want. Having a canadian passport for a USC (naturalized or otherwise) does not add any value (at least for the travel).

Just extra hassle to renew the passport and perhaps some tax consequences.

[tusharvk]

A Child born in the US has a US birth certificate which state's where s/he is born.  The kid's (who is a minor) parents have the authority to apply for a country passport which allows them, as per the country's laws

if the parents apply for the birth certificate or even otherwise?

In this case, the parents would need to register the birth of their baby with their nearest India consulate and possibly get passport and birth certificate from that consulate.

[JoeF]

if the parents apply for the birth certificate or even otherwise?

In this case, the parents would need to register the birth of their baby with their nearest India consulate and possibly get passport and birth certificate from that consulate.

 

The birth certificate is issued by the hospital. There is nothing to ask for.

A child born in the US IS A US CITIZEN. There is NO NO NO way around it.

This is specified in the US Constitution, the 14th Amendment.