Indian citizenship for US born kid


agundra

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Hi

We are Indian citizens going to have kid in USA.  But we are planning for Indian citizenship only. 

After kid is born we are planning for a month vacation to India.

Can kid travel in/out of USA with kids Indian passport ? is kid eligible to get US visa on Indian passport since kid is born in US ?

we don't have plans to settle here. may be for next three years can kid travel with kids Indian passport in/out of USA ?

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Hi

We are Indian citizens going to have kid in USA.  But we are planning for Indian citizenship only. 

After kid is born we are planning for a month vacation to India.

Can kid travel in/out of USA with kids Indian passport ? is kid eligible to get US visa on Indian passport since kid is born in US ?

we don't have plans to settle here. may be for next three years can kid travel with kids Indian passport in/out of USA ?

If you are applying for an Indian passport for your kid then you need to apply for a dependent visa for him/her to enter US

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Hi

We are Indian citizens going to have kid in USA.  But we are planning for Indian citizenship only. 

After kid is born we are planning for a month vacation to India.

Can kid travel in/out of USA with kids Indian passport ? is kid eligible to get US visa on Indian passport since kid is born in US ?

we don't have plans to settle here. may be for next three years can kid travel with kids Indian passport in/out of USA ?

What you plan is irrelevant.

A child born in the US is a US citizen. Period.

Such a child can NOT get a US visa, nor does the child need one, because the child IS a US citizen.

The child would need a US passport to leave and enter the US. Period. No but or if.

 

If you don't want that, you would have to arrange for the birth to happen in your home country.

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If you are applying for an Indian passport for your kid then you need to apply for a dependent visa for him/her to enter US

Which wouldn't be possible, since a child born in the US is a US citizen. A US citizen can not get a visa to the US, nor does a US citizen need one.

A US citizen needs to have a US passport to leave and enter the US.

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Hi

We are Indian citizens going to have kid in USA.  But we are planning for Indian citizenship only. 

After kid is born we are planning for a month vacation to India.

Can kid travel in/out of USA with kids Indian passport ? is kid eligible to get US visa on Indian passport since kid is born in US ?

we don't have plans to settle here. may be for next three years can kid travel with kids Indian passport in/out of USA ?

If a person was born in US then 'by default' he/she is US citizen.

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JoeF, can a child born in US to parents who are citizens of India get an Indian passport?

Under certain circumstances, sure.

But that does NOT change the fact that if the child is born in the US, the child IS a US citizen.

A US citizen has to have a US passport to leave and enter the US. And that would, as far as I know, automatically invalidate an Indian passport that the parents may have gotten for the child.

 

So, the bottom line: A child born in the US is a US citizen and needs a US passport to travel abroad. India does not give out a passport to people who have a passport of another country.

If the parents want Indian citizenship for the child, then they should arrange for the birth to happen in India.

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Hi JoeF/All

thanks much for your response. I have following query on that.

I will take USA passport / will take either of PIO or OCI  to travel between USA/India like many others do for the duration I am planning to stay at USA.

After 5 years incase I decided to move permanently to India, I have option to apply Indian citizenship for my kid in India. By this time say for example my kid is 5 years old. I am sure I will have to give up kids USA citizenship as per Indian constitution rules to get Indian citizenship. Does USA will allow to give up kids citizenship being minor or kid has to wait until kid reaches minimum 18 years of age to give up USA citizenship.

Regards

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Hi JoeF/All

thanks much for your response. I have following query on that.

I will take USA passport / will take either of PIO or OCI  to travel between USA/India like many others do for the duration I am planning to stay at USA.

After 5 years incase I decided to move permanently to India, I have option to apply Indian citizenship for my kid in India. By this time say for example my kid is 5 years old. I am sure I will have to give up kids USA citizenship as per Indian constitution rules to get Indian citizenship. Does USA will allow to give up kids citizenship being minor or kid has to wait until kid reaches minimum 18 years of age to give up USA citizenship.

Regards

You can NOT give up US citizenship for your child.

Once the child turns 18, the child in his or her own decision, can decide if the child wants to give up US citizenship.

 

As I said, if you want to have Indian citizenship for the child, make sure the child is born in India.

Having your cake and eating it too doesn't work.

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Hi JoeF/All

thanks much for your response. I have following query on that.

I will take USA passport / will take either of PIO or OCI  to travel between USA/India like many others do for the duration I am planning to stay at USA.

After 5 years incase I decided to move permanently to India, I have option to apply Indian citizenship for my kid in India. By this time say for example my kid is 5 years old. I am sure I will have to give up kids USA citizenship as per Indian constitution rules to get Indian citizenship. Does USA will allow to give up kids citizenship being minor or kid has to wait until kid reaches minimum 18 years of age to give up USA citizenship.

Regards

 

 

just have the kid born in India..make it simple dude.

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just have the kid born in India..make it simple dude.

That may not be such a "simple" solution to it.

 

You can NOT give up US citizenship for your child.

Once the child turns 18, the child in his or her own decision, can decide if the child wants to give up US citizenship.

 

As I said, if you want to have Indian citizenship for the child, make sure the child is born in India.

Having your cake and eating it too doesn't work.

Well, India decides citizenship by passport for children born in the US. India will easily grant Indian passport to children born in the US to Indian parents, provided they haven't received a US passport. If the OP, at all, wants to travel to India once and for all, this may be a simple solution. Multiple trips to India won't be possible with India passport.

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That may not be such a "simple" solution to it.

 

Well, India decides citizenship by passport for children born in the US. India will easily grant Indian passport to children born in the US to Indian parents, provided they haven't received a US passport. If the OP, at all, wants to travel to India once and for all, this may be a simple solution. Multiple trips to India won't be possible with India passport.

The OP said "After kid is born we are planning for a month vacation to India." And he indicated that he wants the kid to travel between the US and India several times.

That means that the kdi needs a US passport. And that also means that the kid can't get an Indian passport.

The bottom line: If the OP wants an Indian passport for the kid, he should arrange for the kid to be born in India. That's the only way.

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The OP said "After kid is born we are planning for a month vacation to India." And he indicated that he wants the kid to travel between the US and India several times.

That means that the kdi needs a US passport. And that also means that the kid can't get an Indian passport.

The bottom line: If the OP wants an Indian passport for the kid, he should arrange for the kid to be born in India. That's the only way.

I am not entirely sure about this.

A person born in India is citizen of india by birth. A person born in foreign place to indian parents can become citizen of India as long as the birth is registered at indian consulate with undertaking from the parent that the minor does not hold foreign passport.

So, the minor can then apply for Indian passport (regardless whether born in US).

Please post the law that states that the minor has to apply for "US passport" prior to his\her departure from the US. Once the baby receives indian passport (or even before) the parent can apply for whatever dependent visa status is allowed by the parents' visa in the US.

It is upto parents to choose the citizenship of the child.

Even for people who naturalize to become US citizens (their minor children) will automatically become USC, correct?

It is too onerous requirement to have the parents go to India and have the child birth there to ensure indian citizenship for their kid as there are other ways to do this.

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I am not entirely sure about this.

A person born in India is citizen of india by birth. A person born in foreign place to indian parents can become citizen of India as long as the birth is registered at indian consulate with undertaking from the parent that the minor does not hold foreign passport.

So, the minor can then apply for Indian passport (regardless whether born in US).

Please post the law that states that the minor has to apply for "US passport" prior to his\her departure from the US. Once the baby receives indian passport (or even before) the parent can apply for whatever dependent visa status is allowed by the parents' visa in the US.

It is upto parents to choose the citizenship of the child.

Even for people who naturalize to become US citizens (their minor children) will automatically become USC, correct?

It is too onerous requirement to have the parents go to India and have the child birth there to ensure indian citizenship for their kid as there are other ways to do this.

Under certain circumstances, the child may get Indian citizenship IN ADDITION to the US citizenship.

US citizenship is automatic for everybody born in the US, as per the 14th Amendment to the US Constitution.

A US citizen, and a child born in the US IS a US citizen, regardless if the child has some other citizenship as well, can not get a visa to the US.

And the child, as US citizen, needs a US passport to leave and enter the country.

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1753.html

"Most U.S. citizens, including dual nationals, must use a U.S. passport to enter and leave the United States"

This is in the law.

Please educate yourself about these rules before posting falsehoods.

If the child is born in the US, the child can NOT get any US dependent visa, because the child is a US citizen. Period. End of story.

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You have given a link that states all USC required to have US passport to leave and enter the country.

However, this does not overrule the consulate of India sfo website that the child can apply for indian passport.So, this creates a strange situation where the child now has Indian passport but still USC?

I understand the child born in the US is USC; but perhaps not after applying for Indian passport and attesting that s\he will not apply for US passport. The link also mentions that a person may lose citizenship by acquiring a foreign citizenship voluntarily.

14th amendment you cite is no different from similar laws existing in other countries that give citizenship by birth but ask their citizens to renounce the citizenship in case they acquire other country's citizenship.

The situation is no different from automatic naturalization to USC of minor:  the parents apply for naturalization and minor child is automatically naturalized. Except in this case, the parents apply for indian citizenship for their foreign born child.

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You have given a link that states all USC required to have US passport to leave and enter the country.

However, this does not overrule the consulate of India sfo website that the child can apply for indian passport.So, this creates a strange situation where the child now has Indian passport but still USC?

I understand the child born in the US is USC; but perhaps not after applying for Indian passport and attesting that s\he will not apply for US passport. The link also mentions that a person may lose citizenship by acquiring a foreign citizenship voluntarily.

14th amendment you cite is no different from similar laws existing in other countries that give citizenship by birth but ask their citizens to renounce the citizenship in case they acquire other country's citizenship.

The situation is no different from automatic naturalization to USC of minor:  the parents apply for naturalization and minor child is automatically naturalized. Except in this case, the parents apply for indian citizenship for their foreign born child.

Sorry, but the Indian Consulate is completely irrelevant as far as the child entering and leaving the US is concerned.

The US law matters for that.

The FACT is that a child born in the US IS a US citizen. 14th Amendment to the US Constitution.

The FACT is that the parents can NOT change that.

The FACT is that a US citizen has to have a US passport when leaving or entering the US.

These are ALL US laws.

Now, other countries can give a US-born child ADDITIONAL citizenships. That, however, is completely irrelevant for the US. It also does NOT matter if the child doesn't get a US passport. The child STILL is a US citizen. NOBODY can change that.

Once the child turns 18, the child, in his or her free will, could give up US citizenship. Neither the parents nor some other country can do that.

Again, these are the FACTS!

Please get that into your head. Thank you.

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And yes, this may look a bit strange, but that's only because India has this weird illusion thinking that having a foreign passport or not defines citizenship.

Citizenship exists without having a passport.

A child born in the US has US citizenship, no matter what.

Other countries, btw, handle this kind of stuff much better, by allowing dual citizenship in this situation, without caring if the person has a foreign passport.

So, as I've said before, if the parents don't want the child to have US citizenship, they would have to make sure that the birth happens outside the US.

If the birth is in the US, the child WILL BE a US citizen. Period.

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would you kindly address the below topics please?

- The link also mentions that a person may lose citizenship by acquiring a foreign citizenship voluntarily. (The minor will acquire foreign citizenship by the parents attesting in indian consulate that the child wants to apply for indian passport and not have US passport)

-  automatic naturalization to USC of minor:  the parents apply for naturalization and minor child is automatically naturalized. Except in this case, the parents apply for indian citizenship for their foreign born child.

Many Indian born and China born (and therefore, Indian and chinese citizens by birth respectively) renounce those citizenship when they acquire US citizenship (for them and automatically for their minor children).

If you could cite some case laws that would be good to know how the amendments from the constitution get interpreted in reality.

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And yes, this may look a bit strange, but that's only because India has this weird illusion thinking that having a foreign passport or not defines citizenship.

and there are countries which grant citizenship to spouses involuntarily.

Let us have structured and civil discussion and not get this thread locked please.

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A US citizen generally doesn't lose US citizenship by acquiring another citizenship, voluntarily or involuntarily. A child can not voluntarily acquire another citizenship, because the child is a minor. Whatever the parents do, that doesn't make it a voluntary acquisition of citizenship for the child.

A US citizen would have to explicitly give up US citizenship. And children can't do that.

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1753.html:

"In order to lose U.S. citizenship, the law requires that the person must apply for the foreign citizenship voluntarily, by free choice, and with the intention to give up U.S. citizenship."

http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_776.html:

"Citizenship is a status that is personal to the U.S. citizen.  Therefore, parents may not renounce the citizenship of their minor children."

http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_778.html:

"Section 349 of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1481), as amended, states that U.S. citizens are subject to loss of citizenship if they perform certain specified acts voluntarily and with the intention to relinquish U.S. citizenship."

Note the "with the intention to relinquish US citizenship." That's the important part.

From the same webpage:

"

In light of the administrative premise discussed above, a person who:

  1. is naturalized in a foreign country;
  2. takes a routine oath of allegiance to a foreign state;
  3. serves in the armed forces of a foreign state not engaged in hostilities with the United States, or
  4. accepts non-policy level employment with a foreign government,

and in so doing wishes to retain U.S. citizenship need not submit prior to the commission of a potentially expatriating act a statement or evidence of his or her intent to retain U.S. citizenship since such an intent will be presumed."

 

The bottom line: It is NOT possible for a child born in the US to give up US citizenship, it is NOT possible for the parents to do that for the child.

The child IS and WILL REMAIN a US citizen, no matter what!

That's all there is to it.

And again, if the parents don't want that, they need to make sure that the birth doesn't happen in the US. It's not rocket science.

Once the child has grown up and is an adult, the child can decide on his or her own if he/she wants to keep US citizenship or not. The parent can UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES make that decision for the child.

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and there are countries which grant citizenship to spouses involuntarily.

Let us have structured and civil discussion and not get this thread locked please.

The bottom line is that a child born in the US is a US citizen.

NOBODY, no country, no parents, NOBODY can change that.

That is all there is to it.

Period. End of story. There is nothing else to discuss.

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