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simplydeb

H1b validity during severance pay

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rahul412,

 

WARN period is normal employment period. It is not treated differently for H1Bs. Employee is not going

to office has no bearing. I would compare it to being benched. Even when on bench, employer

has legal obligation to pay salary to the employee. 

 

Separation happens on the last day of WARN so technically employee is out of Status after that day. 

This would explain, why a concurrent H1B is needed in that WARN period if you are to join a new 

employer. 

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rahul412,

 

WARN period is normal employment period. It is not treated differently for H1Bs. Employee is not going

to office has no bearing. I would compare it to being benched. Even when on bench, employer

has legal obligation to pay salary to the employee. 

 

Separation happens on the last day of WARN so technically employee is out of Status after that day. 

This would explain, why a concurrent H1B is needed in that WARN period if you are to join a new 

employer. 

Exactly, I was thinking just like that. I got it.

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Yes, but that has nothing to do with the H1. The OP asserted that it has to do with the H1, which it doesn't.

Some states, e.g., California, have even more stringent laws in case of mass layoffs. See, e.g., the mass Yahoo layoffs last year.

And mass layoffs are something rather different than single-person layoffs.

 

Neither OP,  nor the poster who enlightened us about WARN  (0407)  said it has to do anything with H1. 

 

0407  "asked"  if OP is under WARN .    And an H1 employee can VERY WELL be under WARN.   I am yet to see a law which says that H1 holder is not covered under WARN.

 

What you are saying now is a tad different than what you (and wiweq)  said earlier ("There is no such "warn" stuff in the law.")

 

You also do not know if OPs case was a single-person layoff or mass layoff. 

 

I would rather thank 0407  for enlightening us about the WARN law ...  a law most of us were unaware of  .

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@Joef,  

 

You can think and argue whatever is convenient for you. WARN is a labour law. Employer is required to give WARN notice

when he lays of more than 50 people or certain percentage of work force.

Sigh.

That has NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING to do with the H1.

It is orthogonal to any H1 stuff.

I told you that it is NOT in the immigration law. And that is correct.

That it is in the labor law is all fine, but it has nothing to do with the H1.

It is general labor law and applies to everybody.

For an H1, as soon as the employer-employee relationship ends, the person is out of status. No but or if.

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You also do not know if OPs case was a single-person layoff or mass layoff. .

No, but severance pay has nothing to do with mass layoffs, either.

 

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No, but severance pay has nothing to do with mass layoffs, either.

There is nothing which says there cannot be severance pay in mass layoff.  In fact,  there are mass layoffs with severance pay.

 

There is also no law which says H1 employees cannot be benefeciary of WARN law.   

 

Your earlier words were "The bottom line: this "warn" stuff is from your employer. There is no such "warn" stuff in the law."

 

wiweq went one step ahead saying about at will employment etc. 

 

Let's now thank 0407 for enlightening us about WARN 

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For an H1, as soon as the employer-employee relationship ends, the person is out of status. No but or if.

 

You are right but during WARN period, the person still holds employer-employee relationship no matter if (s)he is not-working, non-productive, not going to office etc.  Consider this as a paid bench period ---  H1 is valid.

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No, but severance pay has nothing to do with mass layoffs, either.

Severance pay can be and are paid in mass layoff as well.

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"What you are saying now is a tad different than what you (and wiweq) said earlier ("There is no such "warn" stuff in the law.")"

 

=> If I ask you do you know apple? What comes in your mind first? Apple fruit, computer or "Apple Pugetsound Program Library Exchange" ?

In the same way, to a normal person, prima facie, warn sounds like a notice period.

In any ways, if the employer-employee relation is intact, no termination happened, H1b is good. If the employer-employee relationship is broken, nothing can save H1b. If under warn period employer-employee relation is still there, no problem with H1b status.

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There is nothing which says there cannot be severance pay in mass layoff.  In fact,  there are mass layoffs with severance pay.

You obviously didn't understand what I was saying.

Mass layoffs generally come with severance, but getting severance doesn't mean that it is a mass layoff.

In math terms, A => B doesn't mean B => A.

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You are right but during WARN period, the person still holds employer-employee relationship no matter if (s)he is not-working, non-productive, not going to office etc.  Consider this as a paid bench period ---  H1 is valid.

The person is still employed. THAT is what matters. If that is some path towards the layoff is irrelevant for somebody on H1.

And again, getting severance pay doesn't mean that it is a mass layoff. A person can and do get severance pay even if the person is the only one laid off. And in such a situation, which is far more common than mass layoffs, the WARN stuff doesn't apply at all, anyway.

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@Joef,

 

You said and that too multiple times that  "There is NO such thing in the law", "here is no such "warn" stuff in the law.",

"this "warn" stuff is from your employee",  "All that is just something specific to your employer. It has nothing at all to do with the H1."

 

 

Fact is that you had no clue that there was something called WARN in the labour law. Your contention was that this is specific

to my employer.  Now that you looked up WARN on net,  you change your argument to "it is not an immigration law is what

I was telling".  "lease get that into your head. There is no "warn period" for an H1. There is not, and has never been. Period. End of story."

 

 

You in general are very knowledgeable,  Some of your posts in many immigration forums are as old as early 2000s if not

late 1990s.  I am disappointed that, you started personal attacks moment you saw someone telling osmething

you thought was wrong.  

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@Joef,

 

You said and that too multiple times that  "There is NO such thing in the law"

Are you reall so dense that you don't get that I was talking about the immigration law???

In fact, at some point I even clarified that.

This has NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING to do with the H1. Period.

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"What you are saying now is a tad different than what you (and wiweq) said earlier ("There is no such "warn" stuff in the law.")"

 

=> If I ask you do you know apple? What comes in your mind first? Apple fruit, computer or "Apple Pugetsound Program Library Exchange" ?

In the same way, to a normal person, prima facie, warn sounds like a notice period.

In any ways, if the employer-employee relation is intact, no termination happened, H1b is good. If the employer-employee relationship is broken, nothing can save H1b. If under warn period employer-employee relation is still there, no problem with H1b status.

@Wiweq,

 

Oh yeah right. You were asking me to update my labor law knowledge. I am sure there are lot of labour laws

that I do not know. However I was writing about something I knew you well.  I had typed WARN in capital.

You didn't bother to check it yourself and started your near invective.

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You obviously didn't understand what I was saying.

Mass layoffs generally come with severance, but getting severance doesn't mean that it is a mass layoff.

In math terms, A => B doesn't mean B => A.

I sure did not understand and nor do I understand now what you are trying to convey.

 

Getting severance doesn't mean Mass  Layoff nor does it mean there is No Mass Layoff --- aka  they are mutually exclusive.

 

Why then did you bring up Severance Pay   to justify that you know that in OPs case there is no Mass Layoff ("No, but severance pay has nothing to do with mass layoffs, either.")

 

Getting severance has NO Relation to Mass Layoff --- and we do not know if in OPs case it was Mass Layoff . 

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"What you are saying now is a tad different than what you (and wiweq) said earlier ("There is no such "warn" stuff in the law.")"

 

=> If I ask you do you know apple? What comes in your mind first? Apple fruit, computer or "Apple Pugetsound Program Library Exchange" ?

In the same way, to a normal person, prima facie, warn sounds like a notice period.

 

 

Excellent attempt to save face !  But didn't you ask 0407 to  "update the knowledge of labor law "?  So apparently you are very knowledgeable about labor law and still you did not know about WARN .  Admit you (and JoeF  and me)  did not know about WARN act and thank 0407

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"What you are saying now is a tad different than what you (and wiweq) said earlier ("There is no such "warn" stuff in the law.")"

 

=> If I ask you do you know apple? What comes in your mind first? Apple fruit, computer or "Apple Pugetsound Program Library Exchange" ?

In the same way, to a normal person, prima facie, warn sounds like a notice period.

 

0407  always used the term "WARN"  ... in upper case.  This normally indicate it is an Abbreviation to something.   That is what prompted me to look up WARN.    In your example ,  if you want to mean "Apple Pugetsound Program Library Exchange" ,  you will consistently use APPLE  and not apple. 

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The person is still employed. THAT is what matters. If that is some path towards the layoff is irrelevant for somebody on H1.

And again, getting severance pay doesn't mean that it is a mass layoff. A person can and do get severance pay even if the person is the only one laid off. And in such a situation, which is far more common than mass layoffs, the WARN stuff doesn't apply at all, anyway.

 

I agree "getting severance pay doesn't mean that it is a mass layoff".   But then how did you deduce that since OP is getting Severance ,  it is NOT Mass Layoff ?  And why did you even bring the "severance pay"  in discussion of WARN ?  Sherlock Holmes would fail , I would say :)

 

Bottom line is you  (as well as I)  did not know about WARN law  .  You have continuously claimed "There is no such "warn" stuff in the law.", "There is no such thing as a "warn notice.".    Not a big deal.  We are not lawyers and might not know everything.   But a reasonable person acknowledges his limitation and continues to learn.

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And honestly, I too didn't know about WARN till I went through it. I too had argued with someone in the

corridor that employment is at will more so in California and how can California have a stringent version

of federal law (if at all one existed).  I later on figured out that many people have undergone WARN.

But few big companies just put up notice in their office space and call a meeting and explain that

they will pay "severance"  for 4 or 6 months. In reality it is 60 days WARN + whatever is their severance policy. 

My employer gave notice to everyone and I bothered to read it. May people just believed they have

4 months severance and health insurance. Letter of the law would have needed  that another employment in


WARN period to be a concurrent H1B. However, some attorneys didn't see it that way. They said, "concurrent is only


if you are actually working in both the places,  you are not working in the other place, so it won't


matter." 


 

 

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Are you reall so dense that you don't get that I was talking about the immigration law???

In fact, at some point I even clarified that.

This has NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING to do with the H1. Period.

JoeF, nice way to save Face. Get on the offensive.  All of us here and including those who are

going to read this thread in future (assuming you don't get your posts deleted) would know

who is dense and who has thick skin 

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