CIR?

[tusharvk]

The solution is to have controlled immigration which keeps the net birth rate in check.

so there is no disagreement.

Controlled immigration is what I am advocating. I do not know the full details; but the bill is not advocating uncontrolled immigration either.

Again if people come here (like they landed in canada to find few jobs waiting them unless they had the right skills) get green card fast but are not enough jobs because their skills are not required here, they will stop coming here.

[rahul412]

Great point !!!! JoeF and Belle keep lecturing us about working on CPT, unaccredited universities, breaking the law, shady consulting companies, but when it comes to illegals working, they are all for it, the law doesnt apply, these people are hard working and should come out of shadows (whatever that means) !!!! Hypocrisy at its best. Don't lecture others on following the law when you support illegals.

Ok JoeF and Belle,

Another part of that proposal was about the taxes.

It says people have to pay back the taxes when they apply for legal status. How does USCIS or govt agency calculates the back taxes of each individual when their is no actual record of amount of money earned during that period?

Like Belle said earlier I may be ignorant here, and if I am. Can someone please share their knowledge??

[tusharvk]

may be the taxes will be estimates of their income.

A farm worker working on picking produce may make x$/hrtimes hrs worked.

Then they will extrapolate for the years the workers have lived here. The bill has to incentivize true income reporting by them. So, there will be no incentive to under-report.

[Desi Dude]

so there is no disagreement.

Controlled immigration is what I am advocating. I do not know the full details; but the bill is not advocating uncontrolled immigration either.

Again if people come here (like they landed in canada to find few jobs waiting them unless they had the right skills) get green card fast but are not enough jobs because their skills are not required here, they will stop coming here.

No this bill is nothing close to controlled immigration, you are fooling yourself by believing that. 12 million illegals suddenly made legal is not controlled immigration !!!!

Let me tell you how controlled immigration works. First you decide the ideal net birth rate required. Then you calculate the current net birth rate and project it 50yrs forward. Then you find out the difference between the two. That will give you an estimation of number of people that should be allowed in to maintain the ideal net birth rate. Only that estimated number of people should be allowed every year which should be based on point system (qualifications & skills).

This will resolve all Economic issues, poverty, Social Security, Medicare etc and move the country in the right direction, where people entering the country will be productive and not a burden.

[tusharvk]

getting side tracked here a little bit with calculations of ideal birth rate, etc.

I thought the concern was that the legal immigration intake proposed in the bill was too large.

is your concern with both legals and illegal immigration.

The way it is: if you restrict legal immigration too much (EB or FB), people come here illegally. How do you clamp down on illegal immigration? Border security+facilitate progress in foreign countries (reduce their incentive to come here)+make it super easy to immigrate legally if the skills are needed. US philosophy is nuclear family unity; so you can not just say we want skilled workers alone (dependents are not welcome can't be your position).

Perhaps you have other solution. If you do, please propose.

If you don't have, that is fine. Opposing a bill is your right and you might organize to protest.

[t75]

Be careful what you wish for. CIR is one of those proposals with a lot of unintended and unexpected consequences. It is not, IMO, going to be as advertised for either citizens or immigrants. Once people get GCs, they are going to be competing with USCs and current LPRs against younger, cheaper H-1Bs. There are just not enough US jobs to go around. Welcome to the unemployment lines.

[JoeF]

Ahh, it seems we have a couple of antis here who want a dictatorial regime.

Controlling birthrates and similar id*ocy... Such stuff is only possible in a dictatorial regime.

I have news for you guys: The US are a republic and such stuff is not possible here.

[rahul412]

may be the taxes will be estimates of their income.

A farm worker working on picking produce may make x$/hrtimes hrs worked.

Then they will extrapolate for the years the workers have lived here. The bill has to incentivize true income reporting by them. So, there will be no incentive to under-report.

estimate the taxes?? That's nations property.

You cannot just execute a random number generation program to estimate the taxes on a stupid machine.

Moreover, how do you trace the work history in this scenario??

[cybergeek11]

Here is the article and update regarding the Immigration Reform Bill introduced in the Senate from the New York Times Editorial:

http://www.****************

I think it pretty much sums up the issue.

[tusharvk]

estimate the taxes?? That's nations property.

You cannot just execute a random number generation program to estimate the taxes on a stupid machine.

Moreover, how do you trace the work history in this scenario??

got another solution for the big picture?

[rahul412]

got another solution for the big picture?

imprisonment for USC/LRP and deportation for undocumented aliens for disobeying LAW.

Again, US needs Economic reforms not immigration reforms. The backed taxes of all the legal residents can be used to strengthen the border security forces.

[Desi Dude]

getting side tracked here a little bit with calculations of ideal birth rate, etc.

I thought the concern was that the legal immigration intake proposed in the bill was too large.

is your concern with both legals and illegal immigration.

The way it is: if you restrict legal immigration too much (EB or FB), people come here illegally. How do you clamp down on illegal immigration? Border security+facilitate progress in foreign countries (reduce their incentive to come here)+make it super easy to immigrate legally if the skills are needed. US philosophy is nuclear family unity; so you can not just say we want skilled workers alone (dependents are not welcome can't be your position).

Perhaps you have other solution. If you do, please propose.

If you don't have, that is fine. Opposing a bill is your right and you might organize to protest.

It seems your knowledge about immigration comes only from politicians, most of what they say is a lie. It is a lie that people just want to come to US for work and people won't come if available work is less. Let me give you an example, right now India has more jobs than US, every Tom Dick and harry is getting a job. So you would assume less people would come to US and more would be going back, right? Thats exactly the opposite of whats happening. Do you know Mexico's unemployment rate is just 4.5% and has been for last 10yrs !!!! Doesn't that means millions of illegals should be returning? I guess you got it now.

Politicians and some people here have agendas, thats why they berate others rather than having a logical discussion. You will see these people won't answer to logical concerns, but change the topic by saying something demeaning.

[Desi Dude]

Ahh, it seems we have a couple of antis here who want a dictatorial regime.

Controlling birthrates and similar id*ocy... Such stuff is only possible in a dictatorial regime.

I have news for you guys: The US are a republic and such stuff is not possible here.

You enjoy changing the topic and fooling people. Its not birth rate control, its immigration control, that has been going on for decades. Do you get the difference? People here are much smarter than you think. Every country has a right to protect its borders and citizens and limit immigration.

By the way, why are you ignoring the questions people raised about you, legal and illegal, how you change it when it comes to CPT.

[rahul412]

By the way, why are you ignoring the questions people raised about you, legal and illegal, how you change it when it comes to CPT.

Reason why I mentioned about CPT is that, I personally didn't liked the way ICE behaved with them. They should have simply deported them instead of torturing.

[tusharvk]

It seems your knowledge about immigration comes only from politicians, most of what they say is a lie. It is a lie that people just want to come to US for work and people won't come if available work is less. Let me give you an example, right now India has more jobs than US, every Tom Dick and harry is getting a job. So you would assume less people would come to US and more would be going back, right? Thats exactly the opposite of whats happening. Do you know Mexico's unemployment rate is just 4.5% and has been for last 10yrs !!!! Doesn't that means millions of illegals should be returning? I guess you got it now.

was not aware everyone is getting jobs in india. Anyway that will not mean that people will not come here; because jobs here will be better paying (I hope) than the ones in the India. Otherwise, why would they leave home to come here? .

Do they keep track of unemployment rate in mexico in produce picking?

I think that if a logical argument is what you want, we can have it. But you are criticizing the person and not the issue at hand.

Canadian example would be the best parallel we can hope to have to the situation where immigration is easy and jobs are hard to get.

[tusharvk]

also the nytimes article posted by someone earlier says the same thing about mexican migration to US; dropped to low levels during recession.

[Desi Dude]

Reason why I mentioned about CPT is that, I personally didn't liked the way ICE behaved with them. They should have simply deported them instead of torturing.

ICE did the right thing. All those CPT guys did everything knowingly. My point was about JoeF's hypocrisy. He's so much against CPT wrongdoings but so much in favor of open borders and illegals.

[Desi Dude]

was not aware everyone is getting jobs in india. Anyway that will not mean that people will not come here; because jobs here will be better paying (I hope) than the ones in the India. Otherwise, why would they leave home to come here? .

Do they keep track of unemployment rate in mexico in produce picking?

I think that if a logical argument is what you want, we can have it. But you are criticizing the person and not the issue at hand.

Canadian example would be the best parallel we can hope to have to the situation where immigration is easy and jobs are hard to get.

As I said before you need to understand a lot about immigration and I can't argue with you over small tid-bits about 'produce picking' etc. Try to get the higher picture, because this bill will affect you directly.

Don't even talk about Canada. I personally know 11 people who have moved from Canada to US in recent years (even when US was in deep recession !!!!). Canada is just a stopover for immigrants to come to US.

[tonya]

Hi

Is there any indication/provision that "decade long wait is good enough for green card" will be applicable retrospectively. i.e Like people who have been waiting for a decade already ( like me entered in 2003 with f1 and like many other Eb3's FB's etc ) get green card without any further delay. Pl note i am not stirring up fight between legal vs undocumented and i have nothing against undocumented (being careful with the language here, i am nobody to call others illegal).

[t75]

No one coming to the US is guaranteed a GC. In fact, if you entered on F-1, you stated that your did NOT have immigrant intent,

[tusharvk]

As I said before you need to understand a lot about immigration and I can't argue with you over small tid-bits about 'produce picking' etc. Try to get the higher picture, because this bill will affect you directly.

Don't even talk about Canada. I personally know 11 people who have moved from Canada to US in recent years (even when US was in deep recession !!!!). Canada is just a stopover for immigrants to come to US.

I do not know if your solution proposed is practical.

Leaders propose solutions and get people on board with that solution; then they explain the tid-bits of their proposal to everyone; do not just wish those who oppose their solution away.

[Desi Dude]

Hi

Is there any indication/provision that "decade long wait is good enough for green card" will be applicable retrospectively. i.e Like people who have been waiting for a decade already ( like me entered in 2003 with f1 and like many other Eb3's FB's etc ) get green card without any further delay. Pl note i am not stirring up fight between legal vs undocumented and i have nothing against undocumented (being careful with the language here, i am nobody to call others illegal).

What do you mean by 'undocumented'? So if a man shoots someone does that make him 'undocumented' cop? If someone robs a bank, do you call them 'undocumented' customers? Then we all are 'undocumented' American citizens !!!!! And I am 'undocumented' Spiderman !!

You break the law, you are a criminal, as simple as that. What's so hard in understanding that?

[Desi Dude]

No one coming to the US is guaranteed a GC. In fact, if you entered on F-1, you stated that your did NOT have immigrant intent,

Thats true only in theory. Practically, once you land in US, you WILL get GC and citizenship.

[omshiv]

Thats true only in theory. Practically, once you land in US, you WILL get GC and citizenship.

a small addition to your statement.

Thats true only in theory. Practically, once you land in US, you WOULD WANT TO get GC and citizenship.

[rahul412]

Hi

Is there any indication/provision that "decade long wait is good enough for green card" will be applicable retrospectively. i.e Like people who have been waiting for a decade already ( like me entered in 2003 with f1 and like many other Eb3's FB's etc ) get green card without any further delay. Pl note i am not stirring up fight between legal vs undocumented and i have nothing against undocumented (being careful with the language here, i am nobody to call others illegal).

If this bill becomes a LAW then your GC processing will be little bit faster.