CIR?

[Belle]

DACA children of illegals got EAD; children of legal who aged out of the system didn't get EAD; DACA will be citizens before aged out legal children.

H4 applicants can't get EAD because of home country restrictions; however, spouses of "W" visa holders will get EAD without any restrictions.

Illegals will be citizen three years after green card; legals will have to wait 5 years after GC.

Illegals have to pay $2,000 and legals have to pay $7,000 after paying 40% taxes for over 15 years.

You would rather keep the status quo, wouldn't you? Those illegalls are not getting anything, and that's what's really important to you.

Finally, a quote from something I read today: "The answer to this human behavior lies, as many such answers do, in evolutionary biology. Experiments show that when some people punish others, the reward part of their brain lights up like a Christmas tree. It turns out we humans avidly engage in something anthropologists call “altruistic punishment.”

[Desi Dude]

You would rather keep the status quo, wouldn't you? Those illegalls are not getting anything, and that's what's really important to you.

Finally, a quote from something I read today: "The answer to this human behavior lies, as many such answers do, in evolutionary biology. Experiments show that when some people punish others, the reward part of their brain lights up like a Christmas tree. It turns out we humans avidly engage in something anthropologists call “altruistic punishment.”

And giving illegals everything, that is more important to you?

Yes we are humans. And you?

[JoeF]

Still waiting for the full macroeconomic model you used to derive your unconventional conclusions...

LOL. Me as well.

I always find these armchair economists amusing...

[rahul412]

Right now US needs to create 1.5 million jobs every year just to keep up with the current population. Where are the jobs? Whose creating the jobs thats gonna take all these new people in? Who is there to stop them from not taking welfare and unemployment benefits as soon as they become Permanent Residents?

I read somewhere in that proposal that these people are not eligible for any benefits.

But I am still not able to figure it out, whether market has millions of jobs available right now?

[catx]

With respect to issues of so-called "fairness" in immigration reform (comprehensive or otherwise), there are two very important points that need to be kept in mind when assessing any bill including "The Border Security, Economic Opportunity, and Immigration Modernization Act of 2013".

First, as I have posted before, immigration reform needs to be a "tide that floats all boats" (it should not take away from one group to provide benefit to another group). Beyond that the fundamental question needs to be -- would the immigration reform provide you benefit / would you be better off if it passes and becomes law? It is not (and should not be) about whether the immigration reform would provide more benefit to one group versus another group. It is (and should be) about whether the immigration reform would improve things for you compared to the current state. The worst thing is for groups of immigrants to be fighting with each other over immigration reform as there are enough negative forces trying to defeat it.

Second, "do not let perfect be the enemy of good". In other words, complaining about immigration reform that is good (such as with respect to my first point) because it is not 'perfect' is a no win proposition. The worst thing would be for positive immigration reform to be defeated because it wasn't perfect.

[yahooman]

I like the HIB reform like stopping the subcontracting of H1B's, 60 days to find another job, raising their salary requirements and raising the H1B- L1 fees to $10000.00 for H1 dependent employers. The only problem I see here is that more jobs may outsource because of these requirements. H4 people can work on any jobs is not a good idea. Green card processing for illegals who cannot make sufficient money for their own maintenance also not a good idea. They will become liability for the government. It is good to give green card to illegal children who can at least get a high school diploma- not all of them. For employment based green card, their should not be any numerical limit like as of now as they may wait more than 10 years to get green card in the future even though their spouses and children are not counted.

[vinodsing2000]

A lot of people opposed HR 3012 when it was proposed, saying its bad as it takes from peter to pay paul. Well, the new CIR bill removes country quota (from the bill text and Senator Rubio's interview at newsmax). So we now have HR 3012 equivalent proposed. Also, it has been proposed to do away with diversity lottery and siblings visa to make for extra visa for merit based categories and STEM masters. So are same people (some of the respected senior members of the forum) against this part of CIR bill too? :-)

Also, if someone is un-documented they can prove that they were present in USA before a certain date and get provisional legal status. Now suppose a person on H1 applies for I 485 and the immigration officer finds that he/she was out of status for say a year or so and is not eligible for GC. Will this person be eligible for the provisional status similar to undocumented person?

I personally like almost all parts of the bill except the provision that the special category for STEM masters applies only to people who have completed masters in last 5 years. What about people who completed masters in last 10yrs and they went back to their home country and now are back and are in I40 approved state for say 3 years. People with more professional experience less valuable that people with no or less experience? Does not make much sense.

[tusharvk]

masters degree in stem would qualify for either NIW (no job offer needed), no labor required and further they would be able to immediately file for 140+485 as soon as they have a job offer. So, I think no h1b would be used by stem ms\phds.

The question is how fast they would be able to get ead so they can work for the employer and whether the ac21 kicks in after 180 days of filing 485.

They just want to hold onto their MS\phds. Not clear how the point system works in this case. Get MS STEM and file for niw 140 right away? And they+dependents are exempt from quota

With the exemption of dependents of EB filers, it is unlikely quota will ever get used.

Who will be filing in EB2 and EB3? those with bachelors degrees and further non-stem masters. and how does this interact with point system?

Assuming GC is one's goal, s\he has to pass the hurdle of getting bachelors in STEM undergrad in home country and get into a US university offering STEM Masters; then you get green card. Getting job in the US is entirely different matter.

Job market should balance out in a few years. What happened in canada? late 90s and early 2000s lot could qualify the point system and landed there (some after converting all their life's earnings into C$). only to find few jobs. Making it painless to get green card may make many want to land here; but if no quality jobs; they will not stick around. Even in the US immigration in general and illegal immigration had dropped during the recession. So, the job market will balance out; unlikely to see high unemployment rate.

Those worried about jobs for USC\PR can take some solace from this.Further, even in the face of easy immigration, labor market can stay protected if the skills required for a job include a license (earned in the US).

The system today is being abused (mis-use of h1b, l1, misuse of eb1c, sale of labor prior to perm, etc.) Then there are problems faced by law abiding EB prospectives: aging out of children, prolonged delays of one family member's visa approval, etc. Consequence of hard EB\FB immigration is illegal immigration.

If it is made so easy that no body wants to come here illegally and those who come here are indeed with the right skills, it is a good proposal.

[JoeF]

I am asking the same question again,

Does US economy has 11million jobs in the market?

It has, because the 11 million are already working here. So, the proof is already there.

They are just going to be able to get out of the shadows, which is going to result in additional tax revenue for the US.

So, it is a win-win situation for everybody.

It is really simple if you actually look at reality as opposed to the fantasy world in an alternate university that some antis want you to believe.

[JoeF]

You would rather keep the status quo, wouldn't you? Those illegalls are not getting anything, and that's what's really important to you.

Finally, a quote from something I read today: "The answer to this human behavior lies, as many such answers do, in evolutionary biology. Experiments show that when some people punish others, the reward part of their brain lights up like a Christmas tree. It turns out we humans avidly engage in something anthropologists call “altruistic punishment.”

That is likely quite a bit above his head...

Having an interest in anthropology (actually, there are CS professors who have anthropology degrees; it turns out to be rather important in researching social interactions with computers like in computer gaming, see, e.g., https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonnie_Nardi), it isn't surprising to me to see this kind of behavior.

[yahooman]

I also think there is no need for labor certification in any category. H1 will provide the certification itself. Those with Masters degree from US are considered EB2 certified and those with any degree/diploma from outside US should considered as EB3. It reduces lot of manpower from DOS/DHS. To prevent abuse of green card, those who have any degree from US can apply for green card after 2 years on H1 and others 4 years. EB1 is special category with no limitation.So this will adjust itself to the job market. Salary should not be a base for EB2 certification. Some companies have more job security or perks (not just salary) than other companies with higher pay.

[rahul412]

It has, because the 11 million are already working here. So, the proof is already there.

Already working?? Wow that's amazing, first they are undocumented and now working illegally. And now you support it, what happened to your so called 'that's against LAW'. Did you flushed the LAW in your toilet??

[rahul412]

It has, because the 11 million are already working here. So, the proof is already there.

They are just going to be able to get out of the shadows, which is going to result in additional tax revenue for the US.

So, it is a win-win situation for everybody.

It is really simple if you actually look at reality as opposed to the fantasy world in an alternate university that some antis want you to believe.

Working in CPT was against LAW, we respected it and advising new students to stay away from that.

So working without any legal status,isn't it against law??

[tusharvk]

So you also are saying that more people more jobs. If that was true Pakistan, Bangladesh, Indonesia would have had more jobs. If that was true people from India and China would not have been desperate to come to US. Population brings poverty and unemployment, not jobs.

Right now US needs to create 1.5 million jobs every year just to keep up with the current population. Where are the jobs? Whose creating the jobs thats gonna take all these new people in? Who is there to stop them from not taking welfare and unemployment benefits as soon as they become Permanent Residents?

ok. You are not serious there.

Do you want me to give you examples of country enticing immigrants because their population is too low and old and unproductive? These same countries are actually enticing the young people to have more children. Productive age population brings productivity improvement => more jobs, wealth creation and opposite effects poverty, unemployment.

US has to produce 150k/month jobs; so your number is slight underestimate.

The trouble is a lot of vacancies are going unfilled because the right skills are not here. Welcoming skilled immigrants is going to fill the vacancies and payroll report it will show as such in the payroll report declared every month.

If a lot of people are asking for unemployment benefits, don't you think that the unemployment benefits will go down?

[JoeF]

Already working?? Wow that's amazing, first they are undocumented and now working illegally.

Are you living on the moon? What do you think the 11 million undocumented people do? Do you really think they are sitting at home all day?

Geez. Enter reality.

As far as what I support or don't support, I suggest you actually READ and UNDERSTAND my posts instead of posting complete and utter BS.

Thank you.

[rahul412]

Geez. Enter reality.

As far as what I support or don't support, I suggest you actually READ and UNDERSTAND my posts instead of posting complete and utter BS.

Thank you.

Well I guess you need to stop talking utter BS. You say working illegally is against LAW and now you support that, so who is talking BS??

Are you living on the moon? What do you think the 11 million undocumented people do? Do you really think they are sitting at home all day?

It doesn't matter whether is live on moon or earth, when it comes to immigration all it matters is TRUTH, period.

[Belle]

Already working?? Wow that's amazing, first they are undocumented and now working illegally. And now you support it, what happened to your so called 'that's against LAW'. Did you flushed the LAW in your toilet??

Let me just point out that your ignorance is staggering..

[Belle]

It doesn't matter whether is live on moon or earth, when it comes to immigration all it matters is TRUTH, period.

So you can deny it with all your might while going into a righteous rage? That's a great use of the truth, you know...

[omshiv]

So you also are saying that more people more jobs. If that was true Pakistan, Bangladesh, Indonesia would have had more jobs. If that was true people from India and China would not have been desperate to come to US. Population brings poverty and unemployment, not jobs.

Right now US needs to create 1.5 million jobs every year just to keep up with the current population. Where are the jobs? Whose creating the jobs thats gonna take all these new people in? Who is there to stop them from not taking welfare and unemployment benefits as soon as they become Permanent Residents?

you have a very good point here...also the way companies are sending jobs abroad..pretty soon the whole of US will become Detroit.

[omshiv]

They are just going to be able to get out of the shadows, which is going to result in additional tax revenue for the US.

So, it is a win-win situation for everybody

hmmm..maybe Im wrong..but even if they are given a legal status..i dont think people working low paying jobs would need to pay taxes...

[rahul412]

hmmm..maybe Im wrong..but even if they are given a legal status..i dont think people working low paying jobs would need to pay taxes...

Well they pay taxes and can claim all the money. But the taxed money can be used by US govt for other purposes, and generate more money out of it before the person claims it.

[rahul412]

Are you living on the moon? What do you think the 11 million undocumented people do? Do you really think they are sitting at home all day?

So what about the shady employers who hired these people?? Does USCIS imposes on these shady employers??

[Desi Dude]

Already working?? Wow that's amazing, first they are undocumented and now working illegally. And now you support it, what happened to your so called 'that's against LAW'. Did you flushed the LAW in your toilet??

Working in CPT was against LAW, we respected it and advising new students to stay away from that.

So working without any legal status,isn't it against law??

Great point !!!! JoeF and Belle keep lecturing us about working on CPT, unaccredited universities, breaking the law, shady consulting companies, but when it comes to illegals working, they are all for it, the law doesnt apply, these people are hard working and should come out of shadows (whatever that means) !!!! Hypocrisy at its best. Don't lecture others on following the law when you support illegals.

Ok JoeF and Belle,

[Desi Dude]

ok. You are not serious there.

Do you want me to give you examples of country enticing immigrants because their population is too low and old and unproductive? These same countries are actually enticing the young people to have more children. Productive age population brings productivity improvement => more jobs, wealth creation and opposite effects poverty, unemployment.

US has to produce 150k/month jobs; so your number is slight underestimate.

The trouble is a lot of vacancies are going unfilled because the right skills are not here. Welcoming skilled immigrants is going to fill the vacancies and payroll report it will show as such in the payroll report declared every month.

If a lot of people are asking for unemployment benefits, don't you think that the unemployment benefits will go down?

You are taking extreme examples of Siberia and other few countries with low birth rate. Most people don't even know that US is the 3rd most populated country in the world, after China and India !!!!! Ironically the highest number of immigrants to US are from China and India (excluding Mexico coz its next door and they just jump the fence) !!!! Ever wondered why? As soon as US reaches a particular population threshold it will become like India and China. Already 47 million people on food stamps (mostly illegals). That will go up. Poverty will only increase after a threshold, no matter how many brilliant people you import. Just like India and China have more hard working and brilliant people than US but still such a high poverty rate.

The solution is to have controlled immigration which keeps the net birth rate in check.

[rahul412]

Let me just point out that your ignorance is staggering..

that's what happens when you talk about truth.

And again, asking you the same question "working illegally is against LAW or not?". Just answer yes or no.

what happened to your KNOWLEDGE when people were handcuffed for working illegally under CPT??