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Does US has enough jobs for them if this bill has been passed?? Bcos that number looks very big to me.

Good point. If this bill passes the unemployment rate will be around 20%. So many more millions in the job field. Where are the jobs??

Wages will go down because of immense competition. There will be 100 resumes for each job posting, everyone with double Masters. It's gonna be like India in the 90s, Mechanical Engineers were offered Rs 3000 ($55) as monthly pay.

Someone needs to tell, how will this bill help American citizens and Permanent Residents?

That is pure speculation (and arguably fear mongering), and further your math simply does not add up. The current unemployment is 7.7% / 11.7 million people, a 20% unemployment rate would be 30.8 million people, which means an increase in the number of resident aliens and immigrants would have to cause the unemployment of 19.1 million people. Has the 500,000 new DACA recipients with employment authorization caused an increase in unemployment -- no.

The equal or greater counterpoint and argument made is that changing the status of legal resident and illegal (undocumented) aliens will not have a material impact on unemployment or under employment, as the significant majority of these aliens are already in the workforce (e.g. people in the employment based backlog are already working). Further, numerous studies have shown that immigration is a net positive for the economy and creates employment, not adds to unemployment.

The "Border Security, Economic Opportunity, and Immigration Modernization Act of 2013" bill (not legislation) is specifically designed so that it does not result in a huge influx of people coming into the U.S. or into the workforce. There are a couple parts to keep in mind with respect to the number of immigrants and resident aliens.

1) There would be no dramatic increases to immigrant visa quotas. Yes, certain categories of individuals would be exempt from the quotas (e.g. spouses and dependent children), which effectively increases quotas. However, this is also being 'offset' by repealing the diversity visa and some of the family based categories.

2) While there would be a modest increase to the H-1B visa quotas, there would also be significant new restrictions to and limits on hiring H-1B workers, especially targeted at IT staffing and consulting companies. (Keep in mind that the significant majority of H-1B petitions this year were filed by a mere 10-12 IT staffing / consulting companies. This was never the intent of the H-1B visas program, and the changes are designed to bring the program back in line with the original intent of making it possible for individual companies to hire specific foreign workers with specialized skills.)

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Just remember, this is a proposed bill that has to go through and pass many, many, many (many) legislative steps, including most importantly amendments, before it becomes law -- and there are no guarantees that it will pass. It is a starting point, and not the final legislation.

You have got that right my friend.

I remember too well Bush-era reform attempts.

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It does not need to be fair. It needs to be good for the country, that's all. Any group that wants relief needs to show that it would be good for the country. If you don't feel like your group got what it needed, maybe you used a wrong argument.

what about H.R. 3012?? Was that not good for country??

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not necessarily it has to be good for the country. After all suddenly increasing population by 11 m, how can it be good?

Who knows how much of drag it is going to be on the already taxed healthcare system and other welfare schemes.

EB1 is completely exempt; EB2 going to get 40% of 140k. But is it no per country limitation?

All dependents exempt. Does it mean 140k families per year+unlimited number/year in EB1 until the point system kicks in.Talking about 1M+ legals every year.

Parents of GC can apply for GC as well (no quota?).

A thorough analysis is required to understand the implications of the policy: on population, distribution of age in the population, impact on welfare and unemployment.

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The equal or greater counterpoint and argument made is that changing the status of legal resident and illegal (undocumented) aliens will not have a material impact on unemployment or under employment, as the significant majority of these aliens are already in the workforce (e.g. people in the employment based backlog are already working). Further, numerous studies have shown that immigration is a net positive for the economy and creates employment, not adds to unemployment.

I am little bit confused here.

Their are 11million undocumented aliens and let's consider 50% of them that's 5.5million. Does economy has 5.5 million jobs available in the market?

I am comparing this with H1 application where you show that the job is readily available and we need your permission to start working.

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Are you kidding????? I guess you have no idea about the practical implications.

Et tu, Brute.

Do you think illegals will keep working in the same jobs after getting GC? Right now they work on hourly or contract basis if they get any. Going forward, they will be competing for all jobs.

The "Border Security, Economic Opportunity, and Immigration Modernization Act of 2013" bill would change the status of these people from working illegally to authorized employment and the jobs to E-Verified employment. The employment numbers would not change much. What would change is the employment type going to working legally in E-Verified jobs (i.e. they would be coming out of the shadows). The main impact would be on unscrupulous employers who have been hiring and making money off the backs of these people.

Legal admission limits will be increased multiple times and dependents will not be counted. What do you think all these people will do?? Look for jobs !!!! How is this bill going to create more jobs?

First, "legal admission limits" would not be increased "multiple times". Read the full text outline and the actual bill. Further, the effective increase in immigration quotas (through certain categories of individuals no longer counted against the quotas, such as spouses and dependent children) would be partially offset by repealing the diversity visa and some of the family based categories. Also, these number are in the 10,000s not the 1,000,000s you are suggesting.

Who would need H1Bs anymore when there are so many easy ways to get GC. Why would anyone find an H1B sponsor when he can do a 1yr Masters in hundreds of STEM areas and get GC.

Again, read the full text outline and the actual bill. There is no quota exemption (permanent residency, green card) for U.S. STEM Masters degree holders, only those with U.S. Doctorates (Ph.D.s). Those with U.S. Masters degrees would still need to file under the EB-2 category in accordance the current rules (with the note that there would be an increase in the % of visas allocated to this and the EB-3 category).

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what about H.R. 3012?? Was that not good for country??

No, it wasn't. It would not have created a single GC more. It would just have taken from Peter to give to Paul.

Have you still not read up on that POS bill?

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3) Who would need H1Bs anymore when there are so many easy ways to get GC. Why would anyone find an H1B sponsor when he can do a 1yr Masters in hundreds of STEM areas and get GC.

Again, what does this bill do for Citizens and Permanent Residences?

so STEM MS automatically gets green card. I did not see this provision in the bill. Please point out the section.

I think the system reverts to point based for EB in about 5 years.

That said, the bill is not so well thought out about the problems it will ensue. This is disappointing since it took months of negotiations between the senators.

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Joef says "doctoral degree holders in STEM field gets green card".

Desi dude says "when he can do a 1yr Masters in hundreds of STEM areas and get GC."

which is proposed, only PhD or PhD/Masters, please clarify

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Joef says "doctoral degree holders in STEM field gets green card".

Desi dude says "when he can do a 1yr Masters in hundreds of STEM areas and get GC."

which is proposed, only PhD or PhD/Masters, please clarify

I quoted from summeries available on the Internet. Desi dude just pulled something out of his behind...

The bill is online. Please read it yourself, and then see who is right...

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Joef says "doctoral degree holders in STEM field gets green card".

Desi dude says "when he can do a 1yr Masters in hundreds of STEM areas and get GC."

which is proposed, only PhD or PhD/Masters, please clarify

The bill is already out there; if you search for it. If you find the answer, please do post.

Not exactly sure if It is so much worth once effort to understand what the bill has; it is not the law yet and a lot of things can happen including no bill passing at all.

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DACA children of illegals got EAD; children of legal who aged out of the system didn't get EAD; DACA will be citizens before aged out legal children.

H4 applicants can't get EAD because of home country restrictions; however, spouses of "W" visa holders will get EAD without any restrictions.

Illegals will be citizen three years after green card; legals will have to wait 5 years after GC.

Illegals have to pay $2,000 and legals have to pay $7,000 after paying 40% taxes for over 15 years.

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Stop berating others and answer these simple questions -

1) How is this bill good for American Citizens?

2) How will this bill create NEW jobs?

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Are you kidding????? I guess you have no idea about the practical implications.

1) Do you think illegals will keep working in the same jobs after getting GC? Right now they work on hourly or contract basis if they get any. Going forward, they will be competing for all jobs.

2) Legal admission limits will be increased multiple times and dependents will not be counted. What do you think all these people will do?? Look for jobs !!!! How is this bill going to create more jobs?

3) Who would need H1Bs anymore when there are so many easy ways to get GC. Why would anyone find an H1B sponsor when he can do a 1yr Masters in hundreds of STEM areas and get GC.

Again, what does this bill do for Citizens and Permanent Residences?

Actually, everything you say will be good for citizens. If you think that more educated people who look for better jobs is bad for the country, you are wrong. If that was true, people would be discouraged from having and educated kids.

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Good point. If this bill passes the unemployment rate will be around 20%. So many more millions in the job field. Where are the jobs??

Wages will go down because of immense competition. There will be 100 resumes for each job posting, everyone with double Masters. It's gonna be like India in the 90s, Mechanical Engineers were offered Rs 3000 ($55) as monthly pay.

Someone needs to tell, how will this bill help American citizens and Permanent Residents?

Well, I am sorry, but you seem to have done some modeling of the labor market to arrive to that answer. Do you mind providing us with your full model for review and what data you run it on? Because it seems to me your conclusion goes against everything we have learned over 200 years of economic thought and practice. You might get a Nobel Prize for your thoughts, of course...

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Stop berating others and answer these simple questions -

1) How is this bill good for American Citizens?

2) How will this bill create NEW jobs?

I think this type of reaction is common and will be used by some antiimmigration lobbies to defeat the bill. In house more so than in the senate. Further your question is not meant for me; but let me attempt to answer it anyway.

First talented people are needed in the US to do the work. If visas are not available, talented people will go elsewhere; jobs will follow them. so, at a minimum the jobs will stay in the US and promote at least the service sector (people on visas temp\permanent will spend money in restaurants, malls, etc. so more service sector jobs for the american citizens).

EAD to spouses; in general it is good and this is no different from women joining the labor market in the last century. How it is good for USC? more demand for day care if both husband and wife are working. You can NOT outsource day care.

In general at least service sector will boom because of the bills in the short run. In the long run, competition from the extra workers will increase the quality of home labor force as well. I could go on and give you multiple links to read on from various well known and unbiased sources of research (universities research, newspapers, etc.) if that was possible.

So, ancillary effects of the immigrants having opportunities here are economic growth for the US.

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DACA children of illegals got EAD; children of legal who aged out of the system didn't get EAD; DACA will be citizens before aged out legal children.

H4 applicants can't get EAD because of home country restrictions; however, spouses of "W" visa holders will get EAD without any restrictions.

Illegals will be citizen three years after green card; legals will have to wait 5 years after GC.

Illegals have to pay $2,000 and legals have to pay $7,000 after paying 40% taxes for over 15 years.

you really have a problem with this system, dont you?

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Actually, everything you say will be good for citizens. If you think that more educated people who look for better jobs is bad for the country, you are wrong. If that was true, people would be discouraged from having and educated kids.

I am asking the same question again,

Does US economy has 11million jobs in the market? If the number is big I will give you a discount of 50%, that's 5.5 million jobs??

Seriously, US needs Economic reforms not immigration reforms. Imprisonment for USC and deportation for Non USC for evading taxes.

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Actually, everything you say will be good for citizens. If you think that more educated people who look for better jobs is bad for the country, you are wrong. If that was true, people would be discouraged from having and educated kids.

If you think that more educated people for same number of jobs is good for the country why not go for Open Borders? Why not let everyone who lands in US become a citizen instantly?? Any visitor, any student anyone? Let billions come in. Won't that make the country Perfect !!!!!!!

Be practical and stop imagining Utopias.

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Did anyone pay attention to this clause in Page 311:

"EXCEPTION FROM LABOR CERTIFICATION REQUIREMENT FOR STEM IMMIGRANTS"

The details below are full of circular references to other legal clauses and the clauses in the bill it self, so I am cautiously thinking that the PR process for STEM advanced degree folks waives requirement of Perm.

Anybody has any idea if this is what it implies ?

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I think this type of reaction is common and will be used by some antiimmigration lobbies to defeat the bill. In house more so than in the senate. Further your question is not meant for me; but let me attempt to answer it anyway.

First talented people are needed in the US to do the work. If visas are not available, talented people will go elsewhere; jobs will follow them. so, at a minimum the jobs will stay in the US and promote at least the service sector (people on visas temp\permanent will spend money in restaurants, malls, etc. so more service sector jobs for the american citizens).

EAD to spouses; in general it is good and this is no different from women joining the labor market in the last century. How it is good for USC? more demand for day care if both husband and wife are working. You can NOT outsource day care.

In general at least service sector will boom because of the bills in the short run. In the long run, competition from the extra workers will increase the quality of home labor force as well. I could go on and give you multiple links to read on from various well known and unbiased sources of research (universities research, newspapers, etc.) if that was possible.

So, ancillary effects of the immigrants having opportunities here are economic growth for the US.

So you also are saying that more people more jobs. If that was true Pakistan, Bangladesh, Indonesia would have had more jobs. If that was true people from India and China would not have been desperate to come to US. Population brings poverty and unemployment, not jobs.

Right now US needs to create 1.5 million jobs every year just to keep up with the current population. Where are the jobs? Whose creating the jobs thats gonna take all these new people in? Who is there to stop them from not taking welfare and unemployment benefits as soon as they become Permanent Residents?

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you really have a problem with this system, dont you?

Yes man, bcos we are not taking advantage of the loop holes like you did it earlier.

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Yes man, bcos we are not taking advantage of the loop holes like you did it earlier.

dude..i didnt take any advantage or found any loophole..well and as a matter of fact even I have a problem with the current immigration system..genuine people/immigrants are the ones whos suffering and the illegals get away with it..thats unfortunate.

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Did anyone pay attention to this clause in Page 311:

"EXCEPTION FROM LABOR CERTIFICATION REQUIREMENT FOR STEM IMMIGRANTS"

The details below are full of circular references to other legal clauses and the clauses in the bill it self, so I am cautiously thinking that the PR process for STEM advanced degree folks waives requirement of Perm.

Anybody has any idea if this is what it implies ?

It would be for recent graduates, i.e., in the last 5 years.

These people are likely already working here, e.g., on H1.

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If you think that more educated people for same number of jobs is good for the country why not go for Open Borders? Why not let everyone who lands in US become a citizen instantly?? Any visitor, any student anyone? Let billions come in. Won't that make the country Perfect !!!!!!!

Be practical and stop imagining Utopias.

Still waiting for the full macroeconomic model you used to derive your unconventional conclusions...

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