Immigration Reform


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A lot has been said about in other thread(s). Just want to share my thought. The aim of this post is not to be inflamatory but only to share the thought.

USA had been a land of immigrants. I second making illegals legal in order to prevent them from being exploited by the Corporations. Also, it is inhumane to deport anyone who was brought over the border when they are kids. They would have nowhere to go. If few illegals are present in a country then it makes sense to take some action, but if it is in millions then you have got to blame the system only. It is not the fault of the kids who are brought over or born to someone who came over illegally - married here in the USA - facing deportation. From legal point of view it may sound correct to 'deport' but i am certainly not in favor of deporting someone working in the USA or has the potential to work in the USA in the future. Remember , lots of daily used items are imported from other countries ; If illegals and legals are made permanent something along the lines of 2007 , it will make the life easier for millions and will put brake on the exploitation of illegals. If people and their depenents (be it legal or illegal) will need to survive without even basics , live in fear of being caught, never be able to cross border .. the list is endless .. then it is pathetic. You wound not expect that to take place in a developed / advanced country. Remember why Thanksgiving takes place? If the local Indians had not helped you would not be having USA as it is known today .. Everyone who cross the border is not useless .. Simply because someone jumps across does not make him any inferior .. Remember Einstein was a Legal Immigrant .. And most of the people other than the Red Indians are immigrants too .. Last but not the least .. If the reform has to be a real (justifiable) reform, legals should be put on the list ahead of illegals. That is the correct thing to do. I don't claim whatever i have put above is correct .. but just trying to convey based on what i know ..

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Forgot to add. If someone brought over as a kid to the USA legally and complete their education K12 in USA, then they should be automatically be turned into legal residents. On the other hand , regarding the illegals , if they number in millions, it indicates either the system is not foolproof or someone had turned a blind eye for whatever reason(s).

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I agree that the Kids who came over with their parents and are illegal should be given consideration and legalized. They lived here enough and have nowhere to go now. On the other hand legalizing illegals would send a wrong message to the immigrant community in this country. There is a price one has to pay to break the law and people who jumped the fence made a choice and knew what they were doing. We all know the system is broken but someone rewarded to break the law is not the right approach.

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If the illegal parents are going to be deported where are the legalized kids going to go? Who is going to support them? As i mentioned earlier, if you have millions coming across the border, the system has to be held responsible .. not the illegals ..

What is wrong with kids going back to their motherland with their parents???? You make it seem like the kids are being sent to war zones or something. Its their motherland for God's sake, they are going back to their friends & family, their neighbors, their culture, their language. And you guys make it seem like they are being sent back to prison or something. I think it's actually good for the kids. Why do you think US is the best place for every kid, why can't their homeland be?

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What is wrong with kids going back to their motherland with their parents???? You make it seem like the kids are being sent to war zones or something. Its their motherland for God's sake, they are going back to their friends & family, their neighbors, their culture, their language. And you guys make it seem like they are being sent back to prison or something. I think it's actually good for the kids. Why do you think US is the best place for every kid, why can't their homeland be?

I think either you misunderstood or i did not put it clearly. I am mentioning a case where the parents are bread winner is deported but the kids are not deported. Kids who are born and brought up in USA will be usually (not always) out of place in other countries. Hope that clarifies.

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What is wrong with kids going back to their motherland with their parents???? You make it seem like the kids are being sent to war zones or something. Its their motherland for God's sake, they are going back to their friends & family, their neighbors, their culture, their language.

You obviously didn't pay attention.

The kids have grown up in the US, they don't have friends and family outside the US. Their culture is the US culture. Their language is English.

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First off, I think the OP has raised some good points. That being said, lets not call anyone "Red Indians" I have a very good friend that is native american and he cringes every time he hears the word "Red Indian". He belongs to the Pamunkey nation, part of the Powhatan confederation of tribes. For those who don't know, Pocahantos is a famous member of this Virginia tribe.

Sorry I didn't meant to digress but when it comes to undocumented immigrants, they need to be integrated into American society. I agree with what most pro immigration proponents have to say-

  • undocumented immigrants should be required to pay any taxes they haven't paid as residents
  • face a background check and pay a fine
  • if they have a criminal history, they should be sent back to their home country
  • offer a legal path to a green card after a probationary period

Caveats:

  • this can only be a one time event
  • borders need to be secured
  • should not slow down the processing times of legal immigrants

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I think either you misunderstood or i did not put it clearly. I am mentioning a case where the parents are bread winner is deported but the kids are not deported. Kids who are born and brought up in USA will be usually (not always) out of place in other countries. Hope that clarifies.

In either case, don't make it such a sob story for these 'poor' kids. We all were born and raised in other countries and moved to US we all are 'poor' kids then. I know people who have to live in different cultures due to their job, the kids go with them. Kids are happy with their parents wherever the parents are. Just because they are were raised in US doesn't mean every other country would be disastrous for them.

What about kids of all the legal immigrant parents? Why don't you suggest all those legals to stay in their own country because their kids are born and brought up there?

There is no right place or wrong place for kids, they should be with their parents, period. If the parents have to leave the country the kids must go with them and they will adjust.

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You obviously didn't pay attention.

The kids have grown up in the US, they don't have friends and family outside the US. Their culture is the US culture. Their language is English.

You didn't answer my question. I was grown up in India, I didn't have family and friends outside India. My culture was Indian. My language was not English. I still moved and adjusted. Everyone does !!! Don't make everything a sob story.

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You didn't answer my question. I was grown up in India, I didn't have family and friends outside India. My culture was Indian. My language was not English. I still moved and adjusted. Everyone does !!! Don't make everything a sob story.

You moved after graduating from college. A whole different thing than some teenagers.

In other words, you are comparing apples with oranges.

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There is no right place or wrong place for kids, they should be with their parents, period. If the parents have to leave the country the kids must go with them and they will adjust.

That's the problem. Some people say kids belong to US, some people say parents doesn't belong to US and some people take advantage of this situation and some other people pay price for that action.

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>In either case, don't make it such a sob story for these 'poor' kids. We all were born and raised in other countries and moved to US >we all are 'poor' kids then. I know people who have to live in different cultures due to their job, the kids go with them. Kids are happy >with their parents wherever the parents are. Just because they are were raised in US doesn't mean every other country would be >disastrous for them.

You are missing the main point here. You have moved from a 3rd world country (no fun or disrespect intended) .. or put it other way .. you (and most others) moved from a 3rd world economy to USA for better living. It is difficult to move in the opposite direction. People in USA are not used to mosquito bytes , water shortage every morning , smoggy traffic, corruption / bribery , poor or non-existing or substandard infrastructure , not so good medical facilities , poor law and order system .. the list is endless .. not that i am picking on other economies ..

>What about kids of all the legal immigrant parents? Why don't you suggest all those legals to stay in their own country because their >kids are born and brought up there?

As i said, in USA the education , infrastructure etc (read what i have written above) is better compared to many other countries. It is natural for parents to provide better environment / education / system for their siblings. That's why you see the move in one direction mostly

>There is no right place or wrong place for kids, they should be with their parents, period. If the parents have to leave the country the >kids must go with them and they will adjust.

If a child is born to an illegal immigrant and grows up to be 12-13 years old (not financially independent yet), and the bread winner gets to be evicted , why would the kid need to move? He / or She did not commit the crime. So if a man commits murder you will punish his kids too .. Why break up families? Since the kid is born in USA , he / she is a USA citizen .. why would a country send its own citizen out? What valid reason can a government give if it did not secure it's borders fully .. if you have read what i have said earlier you might not have asked this question. If few people come across the border then they are breaking the rules .. but if millions come across then you must hold the system responsible whoever is in charge of that .. Government too is accountable in this case and they are also part of the problem ..

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You didn't answer my question. I was grown up in India, I didn't have family and friends outside India. My culture was Indian. My language was not English. I still moved and adjusted. Everyone does !!! Don't make everything a sob story.

See my earlier reply. Repeated here.

You are missing the main point here. You have moved from a 3rd world country (no fun or disrespect intended) .. or put it other way .. you (and most others) moved from a 3rd world economy to USA for better living. It is difficult to move in the opposite direction. People in USA are not used to mosquito bytes , water shortage every morning , smoggy traffic, corruption / bribery , poor or non-existing or substandard infrastructure , not so good medical facilities , poor law and order system .. the list is endless .. not that i am picking on other economies ..

I agree with what JoeF had mentioned. You probably came as an adult or for college or Post Graduate education. Your language was not English but if you are from India , probability is that you knew decent English before coming here .. That cannot be said of kids or someone who is needed to learn Mexican or French or Italian or Russian or Hindi or Urdu or Arabic ... How about culture .. their lifestyle is almost fully different .. That is a burden ..

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and what about the tens and thousands of people who have come legally in this country to work, have paid taxes regularly without fault, have good background, have generated jobs as well for this country in a direct or indirect manner... they should be automatically become permanent residents, why do they have to wait for some crazy dates to be current for a ridiculous quota based system, why do they have to be at the mercy of an outdated, ineffcient and irrational demand-supply based PR allocation system?

Give it a thought..

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and what about the tens and thousands of people who have come legally in this country to work, have paid taxes regularly without fault, have good background, have generated jobs as well for this country in a direct or indirect manner... they should be automatically become permanent residents, why do they have to wait for some crazy dates to be current for a ridiculous quota based system, why do they have to be at the mercy of an outdated, ineffcient and irrational demand-supply based PR allocation system?

Give it a thought..

That's why a CIR, a Comprehensive Immigration Reform, tackles all immigration issues. That's what "comprehensive" means.

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I think either you misunderstood or i did not put it clearly. I am mentioning a case where the parents are bread winner is deported but the kids are not deported. Kids who are born and brought up in USA will be usually (not always) out of place in other countries. Hope that clarifies.

Nobody has any issue with Kids who are born in USA. They are US citizens. The whole discussion on DACA is about kids who were born outside US and brought to US illegaly. You probably need to be clear on what your argument is.

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See my earlier reply. Repeated here.

You are missing the main point here. You have moved from a 3rd world country (no fun or disrespect intended) .. or put it other way .. you (and most others) moved from a 3rd world economy to USA for better living. It is difficult to move in the opposite direction. People in USA are not used to mosquito bytes , water shortage every morning , smoggy traffic, corruption / bribery , poor or non-existing or substandard infrastructure , not so good medical facilities , poor law and order system .. the list is endless .. not that i am picking on other economies ..

I agree with what JoeF had mentioned. You probably came as an adult or for college or Post Graduate education. Your language was not English but if you are from India , probability is that you knew decent English before coming here .. That cannot be said of kids or someone who is needed to learn Mexican or French or Italian or Russian or Hindi or Urdu or Arabic ... How about culture .. their lifestyle is almost fully different .. That is a burden ..

That is ridiculous argument. You are suggesting that US should empathizes with people based on their nationalities. So if someone came from India, its not a struggle but if someone came from Honduras, they should be let in coz they struggled so much coz they don't speak English there?

If someone came in illegally they should be sent back, and their kids too, for the good of the kids, no matter what their country of origin is. Laws cant be based on your emotions, they should be fair to all.

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People supporting illegal's should understand that, if they became green card or citizen, they will not do the work what they usually do like agricultural jobs or mowing lawns etc because they get government benefits and no need to work hard for entire year or work in the meat processing plant or in the hot/cold weather. So the cost of common items will increase. So we have to allow illegal's to come another 5 million more to do the same work. Another thing is that illegal's earn very less after they become green card holder/citizen( most of them are not well educated to get a good paying jobs), they are not going to pay any taxes or going to pay for health care cost. They will pay less amount in Medicare or social security as their salaries are less. This will crack the system further. So we need illegals to work to reduce the cost of common items. Most people support illegal's to become citizen because of humanity. I think, they earn $5-8:00/ hour, it is still big money in their country. A computer programmer in a third world country earns less than this amount. I think, if the illegal saves some money, then it is a big money in their country. So we allowed them to come illegally to make big money in their country (this is the humanitarian ground). That is why they are not leaving USA with this low wages. I support to give green card to children who are here illegally or to those illegal's who are making at least $50K for family of 4. Give all illegal's identification documents to protect ourselves.

Only legal immigrants with good education should be allowed. No more siblings or parents. They come here and take benefits without paying for the systems.

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People supporting illegal's should understand that, if they became green card or citizen, they will not do the work what they usually do like agricultural jobs or mowing lawns etc because they get government benefits and no need to work hard for entire year or work in the meat processing plant or in the hot/cold weather.

And exactly where do you get that idea from???

I suggest you stop talking for people you have no idea of.

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Is there a difference between the dreamers and the aging out issue children of legal EB immigrants?

So, dreamers are those who moved here as kids with the parents (parents are now out of status).

Kids of legal EB immigrants moved here as kids with the parents (Patents are in-status but face years of wait especially as EB3IN and may be aging out).

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ok. are they non-dreamer kids going to have EAD?

Assuming no EAD: COS to F1 (only 20hr on campus employment) and I guess they would be paying non-resident (international) tuition. If these kids now have degree, they will work on h1b.

I can not understand why not include in DACA all children (whether the parents have maintained the status or not). If all are included, that is good thinking on part of the administration. If not, one should wonder why different treatment is meted to these non-dreamer children.

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And exactly where do you get that idea from???

I suggest you stop talking for people you have no idea of.

Most legal people get government support. There is no/few legal people working in such type of jobs( meat processing/mowing jobs). That means when illegal became green card holder/citizen, there is no need to work in such type of jobs. I think most people agree for my other points regarding health care or social security systems deterioration when illegals will be legalized. Politicians knew we need to keep illegals in that category for ever to grow our economy, that is why nobody is doing anything to legalize illegals or deporting them.

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ok. are they non-dreamer kids going to have EAD?

Assuming no EAD: COS to F1 (only 20hr on campus employment) and I guess they would be paying non-resident (international) tuition. If these kids now have degree, they will work on h1b.

I can not understand why not include in DACA all children (whether the parents have maintained the status or not). If all are included, that is good thinking on part of the administration. If not, one should wonder why different treatment is meted to these non-dreamer children.

How about GC for all the kids under 18 who land in US !! Even if they have Visitor Visa or no visa. Why should we let them 'suffer' by going through the legal immigration process?

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