H1b-Consulting / H1b-FullTime

[usadreamer123]

Dear Murthy readers,

I am in a dilemma. I would appreciate your 2cents and what would you do given you were in a situation similar to mine.

A little background of my situation:

Completed Masters and its been around 4 months I started on H1B with a decent consulting company. I said decent because, there is absolutely upright in paying salaries, providing health benefits etc. They also recently started my GC processing in EB2 given that I have a Masters degree and relevant experience.

Now, I got another good offer from a large organization to work with them Full-time. The pay and benefits are excellent. Only downside is that, as per their norms, they generally only deal with EB3 for GC processing and not EB2.

Now I am in a fix to decide which track has better prospects for me given that I want to settle down in USA in the future. Also, I am not quite in peace with the way things are in the consulting world.

Q1) Should I choose Consulting Company and have EB2 done / Should I opt for a FullTime offer and have EB3 started?

Q2) Is there a possibility that I can port my Priority Date from EB3 to EB2 at some later date after a year or two?

Appreciate your inputs.

[wiweq]

It’s completely your choice to choose the better offer.

In my view, you cannot port EB3 PD to EB2.

[MayEB2I]

Working full time with a good organization is safe if you need to travel to india frequently(atleast once a year).

Working as a consultant would be better if you are more focussed on getting your GC as fast as possible.

Dont look at the money part right now because as a consultant you have an opportunity to move to different clients for a higher hourly rate as well (assuming your current company pays you hourly)

[usadreamer123]

wiweq - What about the murthy article that is currently available in murthy bulletin?

EB2 "Upgrades" - Priority Date Retention and Online Degrees

Posted 11.May.2012

[usadreamer123]

Krish_Murthy - Thanks for your advice.

[DontWorryBeHappy]

Full time has one disadvantage that if they fire you, you need to quit US or move to a new employer before you get out of status. If you have contacts, research about the company for its layoff history.

If you decided to move to full time, once you moved there have a word with your previous employer and continue GC process in EB2 if they are interested. That way once dates become current in the near future say 2-4 years, you may go back to your Consulting employer and file AOS with them and work on EAD.

If you are unmarried and planning to get married in traditional Indian arranged marriage path. Full time is the best bet for you as it has stability and less issues with USCIS & DOS for petition & visa approvals for both you and your spouse...

[JoeF]

Full time has one disadvantage that if they fire you, you need to quit US or move to a new employer before you get out of status.

That's the same for every employer. If a consulting company fires you, you also would have to leave or find a new employer.

If you work for a consulting company and your project ends, the company would have to continue to pay you. No consulting company will do that for long. If they stop paying you on bench, you also would be out of status.

So, this "you can get laid off" stuff is just a fact of life. It certainly is not what distinguishes companies with products from consulting companies.

[DontWorryBeHappy]

That's the same for every employer. If a consulting company fires you, you also would have to leave or find a new employer.

If you work for a consulting company and your project ends, the company would have to continue to pay you. No consulting company will do that for long. If they stop paying you on bench, you also would be out of status.

So, this "you can get laid off" stuff is just a fact of life. It certainly is not what distinguishes companies with products from consulting companies.

I agree. But in consulting companies firing an employee is specific to that particular project or also depends on the performance of the consulting employee. Where as with full time employers there is one more risk(in addition to the above two) that if the top management decides to change their business strategy there will be massive layoffs on the cards. And you will be right at the top of the list as you are the least experienced guy in the lot. It's just my opinion. I might be wrong.

[wiweq]

"Where as with full time employers there is one more risk(in addition to the above two) that if the top management decides to change their business strategy there will be massive layoffs on the cards. And you will be right at the top of the list as you are the least experienced guy in the lot. It's just my opinion."

=> In any case, lay off is lay off. It doesn't matter if they do it for business loss or management's decision. You were hired for the experienced you had and what was needed for the job. So experience is not the problem. Lay off means they no longer need you. As Joef said, job is always at risk doesn’t matter if you are working as a FTE or a consultant.

One more thing; how are you sure that you can do the "Consulting job" with "least work experience"? As far as I know, all consulting jobs needs 4-5 years sold work experience in the particular field. Remember, faking resume in some states is considered as misdemeanor/ crime. If you use fake resume for consulting job, you will be fired within first week anyway.

[usadreamer123]

If you decided to move to full time, once you moved there have a word with your previous employer and continue GC process in EB2 if they are interested. That way once dates become current in the near future say 2-4 years, you may go back to your Consulting employer and file AOS with them and work on EAD.

I did not know that this can be done? I can talk to my current employer and let the EB2 process continue. This will be the end to problems with the company B's EB3 limitation.

[usadreamer123]

I agree. But in consulting companies firing an employee is specific to that particular project or also depends on the performance of the consulting employee. Where as with full time employers there is one more risk(in addition to the above two) that if the top management decides to change their business strategy there will be massive layoffs on the cards. And you will be right at the top of the list as you are the least experienced guy in the lot. It's just my opinion. I might be wrong.

I also agree with Joef that the risk is same everywhere but the probability of the firing in consulting companies is low compared to full-time company. But, if the fulltime company you are going to work with, is well-established and doing good business I don't think anyone needs to worry too much!

[JoeF]

I agree. But in consulting companies firing an employee is specific to that particular project or also depends on the performance of the consulting employee. Where as with full time employers there is one more risk(in addition to the above two) that if the top management decides to change their business strategy there will be massive layoffs on the cards.

That doesn't really happen all that much.

The stuff you see in the news about mass layoffs are very rare.

Companies don't change business strategies every couple of weeks.

And you will be right at the top of the list as you are the least experienced guy in the lot. It's just my opinion. I might be wrong.

Again, not necessarily. Performance of the person is much more important than being the "least experienced guy."

And if you are "the least exeperienced guy", how would you get a project in a consulting company? Do they market you as "he doesn't have experience, but he's cheap"? Or do they fake the resume?

This "consulting companies are safer" stuff is not true and has never been true.

[DontWorryBeHappy]

One more thing; how are you sure that you can do the "Consulting job" with "least work experience"? As far as I know, all consulting jobs needs 4-5 years sold work experience in the particular field. Remember, faking resume in some states is considered as misdemeanor/ crime. If you use fake resume for consulting job, you will be fired within first week anyway.

Who is talking about faking the experience here? OP said, it's just been 4 months he completed Masters and working on H1-B. Also when coming to layoffs mostly the people who got affected are the least experienced chaps in THAT company not in their career. Companies do that not to create a panic among the senior chaps (who are there with the company for 10-20 years or even more). It's just my view.

If you are talking fake experience in context of me. I am a well experienced guy, had I-140 approved in EB2 and was never got fired in my career. In fact being called by previous clients for their newer projects.

That doesn't really happen all that much. The stuff you see in the news about mass layoffs are very rare. Companies don't change business strategies every couple of weeks. Again, not necessarily. Performance of the person is much more important than being the "least experienced guy." And if you are "the least exeperienced guy", how would you get a project in a consulting company? Do they market you as "he doesn't have experience, but he's cheap"? Or do they fake the resume? This "consulting companies are safer" stuff is not true and has never been true.

Performance of the person is one of the factors, I fully agree with that. In my view, experience in that project also plays a vital role. Because experience will have a huge contribution towards performance. You cannot learn the system which is built for 20 years in a couple of weeks and starts performing well compared to the well experienced guys in that project. It takes time.

Again I am not saying consulting companies are safer after seeing the recent developments. But at the same time considering the sensitivity of the H1-B program we need to be cautious in accepting full time offers as well.

[DontWorryBeHappy]

I did not know that this can be done? I can talk to my current employer and let the EB2 process continue. This will be the end to problems with the company B's EB3 limitation.

It can be done if your consulting company considers doing it since it's a future employment. It doesn't harm in giving it a try when the time is right for you.

[DontWorryBeHappy]

But, if the fulltime company you are going to work with, is well-established and doing good business I don't think anyone needs to worry too much!

I agree.

[JoeF]

Performance of the person is one of the factors, I fully agree with that. In my view, experience in that project also plays a vital role. Because experience will have a huge contribution towards performance. You cannot learn the system which is built for 20 years in a couple of weeks and starts performing well compared to the well experienced guys in that project. It takes time.

That holds for both fulltime and consulting people. In fact, as a fulltime employee, the company invests in you getting up to speed, because they plan on you being there for a long time. As a consultant, you are thrown at the project and expected to perform from day one. And if you can't, you may get replaced in the project with a more experienced person.

[usadreamer123]

That holds for both fulltime and consulting people. In fact, as a fulltime employee, the company invests in you getting up to speed, because they plan on you being there for a long time. As a consultant, you are thrown at the project and expected to perform from day one. And if you can't, you may get replaced in the project with a more experienced person.

Thats right JoeF, I feel that its one of the benefits of joining a full-time product based company. They treat you as their asset and will not hesitate in investing in your personal development/training. That's the very reason, most of the companies have "sabbatical" and "study reimbursement".

I personally feel sad, as a contractor, when I am left out of the company's town hall meetings and other "employee-only" events. All I am trying to say is , though you are a consulting employee and earning big, at personal level, there is greater satisfaction in being a full-time employee.

And, you definitely want to have peace of mind with stricter employee-employer relationship limitations.

It can be done if your consulting company considers doing it since it's a future employment. It doesn't harm in giving it a try when the time is right for you.

So, the EB2 process has already begun so let me talk to the effect and see what can be done to continue this for a future employment. In that case, who pays the costs incurred? If the company I left doesnt want to bear the costs, can I bear them?

[DontWorryBeHappy]

That holds for both fulltime and consulting people. In fact, as a fulltime employee, the company invests in you getting up to speed, because they plan on you being there for a long time. As a consultant, you are thrown at the project and expected to perform from day one. And if you can't, you may get replaced in the project with a more experienced person.

I beg to differ. There comes the reward part. As a consultant, you will be rewarded well with a good pay for your quick adaptability & swift performance in an unknown territory. But I still believe the least experienced(I mean in that project) are at risk when it comes to budget cuts. Applies to both full timers and consultants. This makes life difficult for a consultant or for his/her employer considering the recent H1B amendment rule which should be done for the new project.

[JoeF]

I beg to differ. There comes the reward part. As a consultant, you will be rewarded well with a good pay for your quick adaptability

If the person is inexperienced, the person is inexperienced as a consultant, too.

And "quick adaptability" is an asset valuable for both.

But I still believe the least experienced(I mean in that project) are at risk when it comes to budget cuts.

And that means consultants first. Employees get training, mentoring, etc. Consultants do not. And consultants are easy to fire from a project. For employees, at least for the big lay-off stories, there are a bunch of restrictions, from severance pay to mandatory help for finding a new job. That's covered by labor law.

[DontWorryBeHappy]

That's the very reason, most of the companies have "sabbatical" and "study reimbursement".

To be frank, I have no idea what they are, I was never into full time in USA.

I personally feel sad, as a contractor, when I am left out of the company's town hall meetings and other "employee-only" events.

Missing town hall meetings and employee only events?. Heard that they are actually very boring. :) Every client has different policies though. Some treat contractors & employees the same, some differentiate. It also depends on the teams. If you are a consultant & are with the client for couple of years. They treat him/her at par with other employees.

There is one saying: "Love your Job, not your employer". It's true, because Business has no emotions. As long as you are in it, you are safe. If not, you are out.

All I am trying to say is , though you are a consulting employee and earning big, at personal level, there is greater satisfaction in being a full-time employee. And, you definitely want to have peace of mind with stricter employee-employer relationship limitations.

I must agree seeing the recent developments.

So, the EB2 process has already begun so let me talk to the effect and see what can be done to continue this for a future employment. In that case, who pays the costs incurred? If the company I left doesnt want to bear the costs, can I bear them?

In my case, I paid for it as I am in a percentage basis. I have seen couple of consultant friends, their employers took care of it as they were in annual salary mode. In your case, I am really not sure whether your employer entertain paying for it. My guess, you may end up paying for it provided they consider doing it.

[DontWorryBeHappy]

If the person is inexperienced, the person is inexperienced as a consultant, too. And "quick adaptability" is an asset valuable for both. And that means consultants first. Employees get training, mentoring, etc. Consultants do not. And consultants are easy to fire from a project. For employees, at least for the big lay-off stories, there are a bunch of restrictions, from severance pay to mandatory help for finding a new job. That's covered by labor law.

I agree.

[JoeF]

In my case, I paid for it as I am in a percentage basis.

Actually, that's not allowed on H1...

On H1, you always have to get paid the prevailing wage.

That means it can't just be a percentage. If you are on bench, you still need to get paid. What would be the percentage of 0?

Any percentage agreement can only cover salary above the prevailing wage.

And the employer has to pay at least for the PERM part of a GC process, including lawyer costs for it. That has nothing to do with salaried employee or not. It's the law.

[kalyan_ac]

I wonder if USCIS reads posts like these.

[wiweq]

"I wonder if USCIS reads posts like these."

=> They don't have enough time. They are already inundated with COS and H1b files, and lagging behind the timeline :)

[usadreamer123]

I wonder if USCIS reads posts like these.

:)