HR 3012....Discussion

[Belle]

It will probably bring more Immigrants (legal immigrants) to a common platform since more legal immigrants will now feel the pain which till now is felt only by people from certain countries

Ah, misery loves company argument. You should negotiate with Grassley. He will settle to vote for 3012 with an amendment cutting the annual EB quota down. More misery for all - more company for you.

[Mike M]

JoeF,

looks like you have Berlusconi influence dating Daughters and selling mother thoughts.

Dude Chill everybody knows you do not like 3012. But accept it, there are lot more people who like the bill than who do not. So "personal benefits" for a lot more than for privileged few getting equal treatment and most of those belonging to the rogue nations.

By the way there is recent article on visa fraud emanating from eastern europe on trafficking females. So stop alluding people here of a "particular" kind of being Mother sellers.

[chakrakr]

Well, actually, I did, and I still do (obviously, now not IV). What's your point?

If you have done , that is probably the first and only case. I do frequent immigrant communities including IV and have never seen a EB2-ROW participating in ANY of the moves

[chakrakr]

Ah, misery loves company argument.

Not really. What I wanted to point is , EB ROW (particularly) EB2 ROW has never felt the pang of retrogression. They should feel it at least for sometime to understand how it feels . No point arguing with you and JoeF --- like every human , you and JoeF are just trying to protect the privilege which you have been enjoying for years. I won't blame you.

[chakrakr]

Well, first, it used to be a level playing field. The country quotas are the same for every country. It is not the fault of the US that there are more people from some countries who want to come to the US.

Level playing field ?? Population of country A is 100000 and that of country B is 1 billiion. you say that both of you will get 50000 visa each year. Is that fair ? A level playing field where there is no quota. Or do you want a quota in job, education --- everywhere in life ?

[Belle]

If you have done , that is probably the first and only case. I do frequent immigrant communities including IV and have never seen a EB2-ROW participating in ANY of the moves

No, I was not the only one, there were more of us. Of course, that was back when IV has not come up with a genius idea to propose bills that hurt other immigrants. The lowest common denominator won.

[rakeshsharma_2000]

Question to all:

1. With current laws in place and HR 3012 becoming law, will there be any quota in any EB category for people coming from any region of the world in 2016?

I personally think the answer is no

2. With current laws in place and HR 3012 not becoming law, will there be any quota in any EB category for people coming from any region of the world in 2016?

I know the answer is yes. Status quo will lead to quota in 2016 and HR 3012 passing will remove quota in 2016.

In my view any immigrant association does not have significant influence on law makers mainly because they have members in relatively fewer numbers and cannot vote. Big software corporation and US organizations do have influence with them. So people blaming each other in forums and blaming each others immigration associations do not make any difference towards law making. It just provides some amusement and distraction. We can wish all we want but we are just spectators to what is happening. HR 3012 has long way to go

[Belle]

JoeF,

looks like you have Berlusconi influence dating Daughters and selling mother thoughts.

Dude Chill everybody knows you do not like 3012. But accept it, there are lot more people who like the bill than who do not. So "personal benefits" for a lot more than for privileged few getting equal treatment and most of those belonging to the rogue nations.

By the way there is recent article on visa fraud emanating from eastern europe on trafficking females. So stop alluding people here of a "particular" kind of being Mother sellers.

Let's face the facts. It is very likely that the bill will be a total net loss to EB immigrants. Either EB quota or H1 quota will have to be cut to make this bill a law. The only group that gets some benefit (and questionable at that - later about it) is EB3 India.

As imperfect as current system is, it does allow for quota spillover, and given that not all of EB categories are oversubscribed, the lines for EB2 India and China have been given additional numbers and were moving forward pretty fast. Given that projection, EB2 India would have been current in a couple of years, and then the additional visas would have flown into EB3 India. Over time, EB3 India would have gotten the same date as EB3 ROW. But that of course was not good enough. It would be better to harm the whole category to make sure Indians are not feeling like they are not getting their share.

That's selfishness, my friend.

[JoeF]

JoeF,

looks like you have Berlusconi influence dating Daughters and selling mother thoughts.

Huh? What in the world would I have to do with Berlusconi? Or with Italy, for that matter?

Please enlighten us.

Dude Chill everybody knows you do not like 3012. But accept it, there are lot more people who like the bill than who do not.

And how do you know, exactly? All you have is anecdotal posts. Not representative, so, you can't take any conclusions from it.

By the way there is recent article on visa fraud emanating from eastern europe on trafficking females.

Again, and? That has what exactly to do with this bill?

Is that all you can come up with in "defense" of this bill? I see you don't have any arguments.

This bill screws over ROW people, no matter how hard you try to divert the issue.

And people who are happy to screw other over for their own benefit are indeed in the category of "selling their own mother for a GC." That some other people may also do that is certainly not an excuse to also do it. "Officer, the guy in front of me was also speeding" doesn't get you out of a ticket, either. In other words, if there was a bill about some Eastern European visa fraud, I would comment on it. Right now, there is no such bill, but there is a bill that screws over other legal immigrants. And that is something that is simply not acceptable for an educated person.

[Raju2005_10]

So, more people getting screwed over for your personal benefit?

As I said, some people would sell their own mother for a GC.

and some people sell their sense of fairness trying to hold onto rigid beliefs.

This is a step in right direction and sensible thing is to work together even though its not a perfect bill. If this is successful maybe next success could come with Dream Act.

To keep unity, sometimes you have to support bills that you dislike so that inreturn you get support for bills you are passionate about.

[JoeF]

If you have done , that is probably the first and only case. I do frequent immigrant communities including IV and have never seen a EB2-ROW participating in ANY of the moves

IV discourages participation of ROW people. There have been reports (sorry, can't link to them here) that IV does not accept donations from ROW, so that donors can not find out about the IV strategy (which is accessible to donors only.)

[JoeF]

By the way there is recent article on visa fraud emanating from eastern europe on trafficking females. So stop alluding people here of a "particular" kind of being Mother sellers.

I am actually not quite sure what you are trying to imply with this comparison.

It seems you are saying that EB3-India is fraud...

My guess is that that's not what you wanted to say... I suggest you actually think about what you are trying to say before posting...

In any case, this shows that you don't have any argument, and just throw anything out in the hope that it would stick. Won't work. It only shows that some people indeed do anything to get the GC before their fellow immigrants, therefore making my point.

[MurthyAdmin]

As the MurthyForum is intended to help the immigrant community, please refrain from using language in posts that is disrespectful to other forum members. Posts which are disrespectful and/or not helpful to the immigrant community will be edited or deleted. Forum members are entitled to their opinion/s and entitled to share their opinion/s, so long as it is done in a respectful manner.

[chakrakr]

IV discourages participation of ROW people. There have been reports (sorry, can't link to them here) that IV does not accept donations from ROW, so that donors can not find out about the IV strategy (which is accessible to donors only.)

BS. To make a donation to IV you need not even mention if you are ROW

[chakrakr]

No, I was not the only one, there were more of us. Of course, that was back when IV has not come up with a genius idea to propose bills that hurt other immigrants. The lowest common denominator won.

You are sayng you have donated to IV, JoEF says "IV does not accept donations from ROW" . Who is right ?

BTW, this bill is fairly new and I have not seen a single EB2 ROW in ANY of IV Rallys . Might be you were hiding somewhere.

[chakrakr]

Let's face the facts. It is very likely that the bill will be a total net loss to EB immigrants. Either EB quota or H1 quota will have to be cut to make this bill a law.

Let me borrow some of JoeF's old posting ---- "How do you know ? Do you have that much political clout ?" This is just your "guess" .

As imperfect as current system is, it does allow for quota spillover, and given that not all of EB categories are oversubscribed, the lines for EB2 India and China have been given additional numbers and were moving forward pretty fast. Given that projection, EB2 India would have been current in a couple of years, and then the additional visas would have flown into EB3 India. Over time, EB3 India would have gotten the same date as EB3 ROW.

You (along with JoeF) have been saying 70 years wait is nonsense. 70 years wait is based on Hard data. Now you are just making some statement saying EB2-I will be current , EB3 -I will be in same position as EB3-ROW etc. Where is your data ? Where is your analysis ? Or is it that you just had a sweet dream ?

BTW, I do now agree with you and JoeF , 70 years wait is nonsense ---- most of the EB3-I aspirants will be in grave or retire before their wait time is over. So it is technically true, no one will wait for 70 years.

[chakrakr]

And people who are happy to screw other over for their own benefit are indeed in the category of "selling their own mother for a GC."

Agreed. But you are in the same August league --- you have been and want to continue to screw others (read I/C) for your own benefit ... to maintain a fast lane quota for your countrymen.

[testvisauser]

Pie in the sky thought here: How about allow people to adjust to employment based permanent residence if they have been working full-time on H1B for six years continuously without any violations in status? :-D) By continuously I mean literally without being out of the country for extended periods of time proving that they intend to settle down here. What will be the flaw in this proposal?

PS: I am not very clear on L1 visa rules so only talking about H1 here.

[Mike M]

Plain and simple, stop calling names and refrain from dirty words. There have been lot of EB ROW forums where indians have been called all kinds of name and that is wrong. We are all educated lets not degrade ouselves by using low language.

Also agree with JoeF point on having a solution for all but do empathise with situation suncrest is facing. So yes this bill makes it level playing field for all and thats my view point which i like.

[JoeF]

and some people sell their sense of fairness trying to hold onto rigid beliefs.

This is a step in right direction and sensible thing is to work together even though its not a perfect bill. If this is successful maybe next success could come with Dream Act.

This bill ma

kes things worse for lots of people. That has nothing to do with "not liking" a bill.

It has to do with a bill actively harming people. That's just not acceptable.

I am all for a bill helping you guys, but not at the expense of screwing over other immigrants.

This bill is destroying unity. Come up with a bill that doesn't screw over others, e.g., by increasing the quota or taking dependents out of the quota numbers.

[JoeF]

Not really. What I wanted to point is , EB ROW (particularly) EB2 ROW has never felt the pang of retrogression. They should feel it at least for sometime to understand how it feels . No point arguing with you and JoeF --- like every human , you and JoeF are just trying to protect the privilege which you have been enjoying for years. I won't blame you.

What privilege?

It is you guys who, for your own personal benefit, screw over other immigrants, drag everybody down. If you are in misery, you want everybody else to be in misery as well. Cut H1 numbers, EB quota, anything, just so that everybody suffers.

The difference between you and others supporting this bill and me is that you are fine with making life worse for your fellow immigrants, whereas I want to make life better for all immigrants. That makes you an anti-immigrant.

[vs_cl]

No, I was not the only one, there were more of us. Of course, that was back when IV has not come up with a genius idea to propose bills that hurt other immigrants. The lowest common denominator won.

JoeF/Belle,

I think I understand the arguments on both sides of this discussion. However I personally think you guys have done an incredible job of helping people from across the world including India/China seeking advice on immigration woes. Thank you for your contribution.

It is a shame that this discussion has turned so personal. I don't think that the extreme views expressed by some of the posters here represent the majority of immigrants who are working hard and waiting in the queue.

Everyone,

I am sure you all know the purpose of this forum is to help each other with immigration issues. Let's help or seek help here & encourage others to do the same.

:-)

[JoeF]

It is a shame that this discussion has turned so personal. I don't think that the extreme views expressed by some of the posters here represent the majority of immigrants who are working hard and waiting in the queue.

I don't think so, either. It is just a vocal minority that makes up in rudeness for their lack of education.

They are like the Tea Party...

[mike999]

JoeF/Belle,

I think I understand the arguments on both sides of this discussion. However I personally think you guys have done an incredible job of helping people from across the world including India/China seeking advice on immigration woes. Thank you for your contribution.

It is a shame that this discussion has turned so personal. I don't think that the extreme views expressed by some of the posters here represent the majority of immigrants who are working hard and waiting in the queue.

Everyone,

I am sure you all know the purpose of this forum is to help each other with immigration issues. Let's help or seek help here & encourage others to do the same.

:-)

I agree with you. I know we all have different views and opinions on immigration. Everyone has a right to think what's best for themselves. In a way, I hope any bill that passes helps all immigrants irrespective of origin.

[JoeF]

Not really. What I wanted to point is , EB ROW (particularly) EB2 ROW has never felt the pang of retrogression.

LOL.

It is obvious that you weren't around in these quarters in the 1990s...

EB2-ROW took longer than EB2-India now.

It helps to actually get educated about these things...