H1/B1 refused earlier and F1 chances

[varv]

Dear all,

Your inputs are much appreciated as I am in total dilemma to move forward.

let me give my back ground first and would need your help to understand if i can go for F1 now.

I went to US in 2004 on F1 ( this was approved after two rejections), finished MS (non IT) and got into IT job got first H1 petition valid from 10/2008 to 09/2011 while in US itself.

I attended first H1 stamping in Oct-2009 and didn't approved be's of E-V1-V2-V3-C model and my non IT degree.

Later I started working for the same client from India pay roll (employer V2) with the an middle vendor, the model turned into E-V-C (V2-V3-C).

Due to the project time lines and my role that needed to be in US I tried B1 first time in June-2010, it didn't approved be's of an error in DS-160 and re-applied in Sept-2010 and this time also B1 not approved be's of VO didn't convinced that I am going for work rather a visit.

So my employer (V2) agreed to go with the new H1 in premium processing and went for stamping in March-2011 and it went into admin processing.

After a long wait in Oct-2011 I got an mail from consulate that its rejected due to the EVC and at the same time the project got over by June-2011 unfortunately my client didn't start the next phase of the project due to the budget and recession hit after June-2011.

While all this going on, I also applied for an university and got I-20 for Aug-2011(Fall) but didn't go for F1 stamping due to my H1 was in Admin process now I got to know that H1 was not approved in Oct and have an I-20 differed to Jan-2012 (Spring).

The question is what are my chances for F1 stamping with my background....is it going to work or its going to put an bad mark as already I have multiple refusals like F1, H1 and B1 !!!!.

Is it going to work for F1 or should wait and file only H1 again?

[JoeF]

You did so many shady things that it is very unlikely that you will ever get a non-immigrant visa again.

Abuse of H1 and attempted abuse of B1 were the last issues.

All that is in your file and will make it nearly impossible to get another visa.

[newdisplayname]

Hello Varv...Have you ever realized that because of people like you even the genuine cases get stuck forever? Do you realize the emotional pain that such people have to suffer because people such as you will go to any length to commit fraud?

I hope you are made an example and other people who are thinking of committing fraud will think zillion times before they do it.

Sorry for the harsh words but dude I myself had to go through the administrative processing, and my visa was approved after 3.5 months (I am a full time employee with an American MNC)

[AxialTilt]

Hello Varv...Have you ever realized that because of people like you even the genuine cases get stuck forever? Do you realize the emotional pain that such people have to suffer because people such as you will go to any length to commit fraud?

I hope you are made an example and other people who are thinking of committing fraud will think zillion times before they do it.

Sorry for the harsh words but dude I myself had to go through the administrative processing, and my visa was approved after 3.5 months (I am a full time employee with an American MNC)

@rajvis16, understand your frustration, but seriously what is the mistake varv has done?Working in layers with vendors in between was never illegal. If it was illegal, why would USCIS approve the petitions in the first place? Why would these petitions get reaffirmed by USCIS after 9 months when they are sent back for revocation or review by the cosulates. It is just an unfortunate reason that US embassies are trying to do this deliberately to keep down the visa numbers because of unemployment numbers prevailing in US. Moreover the problem was always employee-employer relationship rather than working in layers. Many people misunderstand and confuse between these 2 reasons. Embassies are still stamping the visas for people in EVC model. My friends have got it done successfully in consulates in India while I got stuck. Only the percentage is less.

Many companies do send employees on B1 visas, and if his company has sponsored him a B1 visa, it is not his mistake. many MNC's do that. Thousands of people have got a Masters in one field and started working on different field later. Nothing he did is illegal or 'shady'. There is a huge disconnect between USCIS and the embassies and unfortunately people are getting stuck because of that disconnect. Don't just vent out your frustration on some guy that you have come across on forums, if you are really frustrated about your adminsitrative processing, hire an attorney and fight against the consulate's decistion for having put you under admin processing! Using the word 'fraud' against 'varv' is totally inappropriate.

@varv, chances might be slim for another approval, but u never know, if ur new petition is valid and everything is on the lines of what embassies think is right, you might get it! Good luck

[Desi Dude]

Your case is a good example that the system works !! You are desperate to come to US by any means even if you have to do 3 Masters degrees. And to explain what you did wrong is that your degree was in a non-IT field and your H1B was in IT. So many of us have suffered due to people like you.

[sampitroda]

Hello Varv...Have you ever realized that because of people like you even the genuine cases get stuck forever? Do you realize the emotional pain that such people have to suffer because people such as you will go to any length to commit fraud?

I hope you are made an example and other people who are thinking of committing fraud will think zillion times before they do it.

Sorry for the harsh words but dude I myself had to go through the administrative processing, and my visa was approved after 3.5 months (I am a full time employee with an American MNC)

Hello rajvis16, Please let me know what kind of docs you were asked when you were in Adminitrative Processing. I am also FTE with a good firm and my masters from one of the top US university. But really scared to go for stamping.

[JoeF]

@rajvis16, understand your frustration, but seriously what is the mistake varv has done?

For one, working with a non-IT degree in IT. That's only possible with some kind of misrepresentation.

Moreover the problem was always employee-employer relationship rather than working in layers. Many people misunderstand and confuse between these 2 reasons.

They are related, due to the fact that it is pretty much impossible for the employer to control the work of the employee in case of layers.

It is true, though, that H1s were never for agent situations, which is what the EVC model essentially is.

Many companies do send employees on B1 visas, and if his company has sponsored him a B1 visa, it is not his mistake. many MNC's do that.

Well, on B1, a person can not work for a US entity. If the person did, then it is the person's mistake.

Thousands of people have got a Masters in one field and started working on different field later. Nothing he did is illegal or 'shady'.

Hmm, here you are wrong.

For an H1, the job has to require a degree relevant to the field of work. You can't just use a degree in one field to get an H1 in another.

[AxialTilt]

For one, working with a non-IT degree in IT. That's only possible with some kind of misrepresentation.

They are related, due to the fact that it is pretty much impossible for the employer to control the work of the employee in case of layers.

It is true, though, that H1s were never for agent situations, which is what the EVC model essentially is.

Well, on B1, a person can not work for a US entity. If the person did, then it is the person's mistake.

Hmm, here you are wrong.

For an H1, the job has to require a degree relevant to the field of work. You can't just use a degree in one field to get an H1 in another.

@JoeF, agree with you that all you mentioned holds good for current situation, not for 2 years ago.

[varv]

Thanks a lot for sharing your thoughts.

I want to say that its not something I tried "Fraud" “shady” that’s insane to say !!

In the first place when I said non-IT it meant not core CS major, during my grad studies I did work as a graduate assistance in IT area (GIS) and completed required course work as well.....without enough knowledge I wouldn't even get into assistantship offer to work at all as it was through a screening process and more over I was engaged to work for a State Gov Department from my university research/development centre....so I have enough skill set that I can work in IT field academically and professionally...

With this given background that was the first reason(as I aware) why my H1 petition approved by USCIS even though there is of huge number of filing and lottery pick...hope it’s clear now.

Now coming to the consulate part....why the hell the consulate says NO to stamping blaming on degree, multiple layers and at same time why USCIS approves the petition....BIG ****, reject the petition then only when applied, who’s forcing to approve…why un necessary work and later struggle with this.

In fact they are Shady one…who’s playing with applicants.

(they can’t do this be’s they need money, money, money to protect their own cause like cross border and bla bla)

B1 is something organizational requirement....tell me when my employer engaged with the Big 4 tries to implement a project they do want the key resources sit across the table with client and have the things delivered.....I am the key for the project, made the huge success whre the client never expected that high and me being onsite with crunch time frame, uncertainty, budget, speculations, mil dollars deal and for the next phase I got stuck in offshore.....I have to be onsite at least to participate in workshops and blue print stage that my employer, implementation partner, end client and the whole team feel confident enough that I am there to take care/work for them….In spite of me being offshore did deliver the project successfully yet again......of course spending ridiculous work hours and late nights of continuous one and half year tireless working days with more energy.

@northwest.bobby

Thanks for looking at the other side and pointing the major issue that USCIS and consulate playing around. The system is encouraging to come and participate and top of itself pulls into the agony.

@rajvis16

When you said you are genuine, then why you have to face Admin Process…..do you understand the issue with you or your employer…..waht’s wrong in your case, take a look…atleast question the consulate? Why u need to wait? Fight on that?

For 3.5 months wait you saying pain….look at the forum there are much more genuine people than your’s stuck for no reason….waiting for months and months and close to year too….why is that ??

I was honest enough in my post and at consulate too but the outcome is horrible, being honest not paid well in my case. I am tired and was going through mental torture with visa game for about two freaking years now…do you know what that would be….even my love life got screwed up ….what not.

I am thinking about F1 so that I can begin a fresh start…..I don’t have to take this assault and pain, not required nor for some of you also.

[JoeF]

@JoeF, agree with you that all you mentioned holds good for current situation, not for 2 years ago.

That all applied 2 years ago as well. The employer-employee relationship stuff was the only thing that wasn't spelled out as much. But a job agency (which is basically what the E in EVC is) was never eligible to file for an H1.

[newdisplayname]

When you said you are genuine, then why you have to face Admin Process

Exactly my thoughts, and I am sure your case helped me identify the "why" part.

look at the forum there are much more genuine people than your’s stuck for no reason….

How do you know that those people who are waiting for their visas have more genuine case then mine? What information you have that gives you the right to make such a sweeping statement?

atleast question the consulate? Why u need to wait? Fight on that?

Really? How? Fight with whom? Now since you are stuck, can you guide me as to how one can fight to get their visa from the consulate officer? By posting your case on Murthy's forum?

@northwest.bobby

Let me be very clear: The Desi consultant and Indian software companies misused the visa for a long time. This happened because many of our compatriots (job seeker) were willing to sing the same tune with them. Now it is the pay back time.

It is very important for those people who want to work in US to let them be aware of all such cases. They should try to avoid such fraudulent companies so that they don't face any problem when they go for visa stamping.

[newdisplayname]

Hello rajvis16, Please let me know what kind of docs you were asked when you were in Adminitrative Processing. I am also FTE with a good firm and my masters from one of the top US university. But really scared to go for stamping.

Following documents were asked from me:

1. Petition papers (All the documents that were submitted to the USCIS by your lawyer while filing/extending your visa: I-129, LCA etc)

2. I-797 paper

3. Passport

4. 2011 W2 form and the filed income tax return document for the same year

5. 2011 Pay stub

6. 2011 Bank Statement

[AxialTilt]

Exactly my thoughts, and I am sure your case helped me identify the "why" part.

How do you know that those people who are waiting for their visas have more genuine case then mine? What information you have that gives you the right to make such a sweeping statement?

Really? How? Fight with whom? Now since you are stuck, can you guide me as to how one can fight to get their visa from the consulate officer? By posting your case on Murthy's forum?

@northwest.bobby

Let me be very clear: The Desi consultant and Indian software companies misused the visa for a long time. This happened because many of our compatriots (job seeker) were willing to sing the same tune with them. Now it is the pay back time.

It is very important for those people who want to work in US to let them be aware of all such cases. They should try to avoid such fraudulent companies so that they don't face any problem when they go for visa stamping.

@rajvis16, you are now talking all this cr*p because you got the stamp. So many full time employees were also put under admin processing if you look thru the posts, don't just blabber whatever you like and you have no right to call @varv fraud, he did not forge any papers nor did he commit any crime. USCIS approving the petition means everything is according to rules. I state this again countless petitions are being re-affirmed by USCIS after 9 months. Just read thru forums. EVC is never illegal. It is just how you present the relationship between employee employer that decides the visa stamp at the consulate. You are clearly frustrated with your admin processing, so hire an attorney and fight with consulate for having done that, dont ask me 'how' again, I clearly stated hire an attorney, he will guide you. Else go and preach population control awareness in India because the high numbers are the real cause for everything. No other country's consulates are facing this problem with Employee Employer relationship. This is just a deliberate way to reduce the numbers. You are a lucky fish that got out of the net. Be happy for that.

@JoeF E in EVC was never ineligible, if it why are EVC's getting stamped successfully in Mexico and Canada's consulates? Every day new posts (though less in number) appear that EVC model are getting stamped successfully in consulates in India

[JoeF]

@JoeF E in EVC was never ineligible, if it why are EVC's getting stamped successfully in Mexico and Canada's consulates? Every day new posts (though less in number) appear that EVC model are getting stamped successfully in consulates in India

Sigh. It wasn't enforced much, but now, with the Neufeld memo, it is.

[newdisplayname]

@rajvis16, you are now talking all this cr*p because you got the stamp.

Dude, I am talking "cr*p" not because my visa got stamped but because of the fraudulent nature of the Desi consultants that have misused the visa for a long time. Its unfortunate that you think it is all "cr*p". As I said employee should be aware of such fraud people and avoid having any relationship with them as it will only make their task of getting visa more difficult.

you have no right to call @varv fraud

OK, he is not a fraud but his case is.

You are clearly frustrated with your admin processing, so hire an attorney and fight with consulate for having done that, dont ask me 'how' again

As I said before and let me reiterate; we are all facing a greater scrutiny because for so long people have misused the visa. That frustrates me. Admin processing, as I said, is a payback time for all of us now. It is unavoidable. So you completely misunderstood me.

And as you know getting visa is not our right. It is upto the visa officer to decide the merit of your case and take decision. If it is rejected then there are other ways by which you can reapply - which is legal. So why should any one hire attorney for that is beyond me. And personally in my case, I will not hire any attorney as visa officers are not villain in my movie but the fraudulent people, who misuse visa, are.

Else go and preach population control awareness in India because the high numbers are the real cause for everything

I am not sure what population explosion has got to do with the administrative processing. But this line made me laugh - not loudly though. To discuss the effect of population explosion we need to go to some other relevant site.

You are a lucky fish that got out of the net. Be happy for that.

I agree with you on this. I was very lucky to get my visa in 3.5 months. And I am happy too.

I wish good luck to you - hope you get your visa sooner. Waiting for that magical mail from the VFS everyday just wear one down. I have been through that and so I know.

[JoeF]

Else go and preach population control awareness in India because the high numbers are the real cause for everything.

The real cause for what exactly? Spell it out.

Are you claiming that the population of India is the reason people from India commit fraud to come to the US?

How about doing the noble thing, fixing the country instead of signing up with shady consulting companies??? How about doing something for your country for a change?

There is this famous line from JFK: "Do not ask what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country"...

If more people would follow that, the world would be a better place.

[AxialTilt]

The real cause for what exactly? Spell it out.

Are you claiming that the population of India is the reason people from India commit fraud to come to the US?

How about doing the noble thing, fixing the country instead of signing up with shady consulting companies??? How about doing something for your country for a change?

There is this famous line from JFK: "Do not ask what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country"...

If more people would follow that, the world would be a better place.

@JoeF and @rajvis16, you guys don't get it. you guys keep on calling EVC 'fraud' and 'shady', which is not. I cannot wake up a person who is pretending to be asleep! You guys are just calling EVC 'fraud' which clearly is not.

If over-population is not the real cause what else is the reason every other country's GC is current while ours and China's is 2008 for EB2 and 2002 for EB3?

@JoeF, do not distort my comments. I mentioned one of the root causes for this whole issue. I never abused my country. You can save your JFK comments for some other preaching sessions of yours! You can have a job right away as a daily serial writer looking at the way you have distorted my comments.

FYI this issue was going to happen one day. Simple logic of supply of people into US and availability of jobs there. More and more Indian people started competing for an IT opening in US let alone competing with US citizens. This was going to happen one day. If there was not so much supply, the situation would not be saturated so much. Unfortunately the first step they took to counter this was to cut down the major chunk in H1's. I was just trying to mention one of the causes of all this frustration among people wanting to get the visa.

You cannot see the root of the tree because it is below the soil, but that is what the whole tree is based on. Similarly the root of population explosion has developed a long back and people see the overlying problems, but not the root anymore.

[JoeF]

@JoeF and @rajvis16, you guys don't get it. you guys keep on calling EVC 'fraud' and 'shady', which is not. I cannot wake up a person who is pretending to be asleep! You guys are just calling EVC 'fraud' which clearly is not.

It is not necessarily fraud, but the EVC model can not be used to get an H1.

There has to be an employer-employee relationship for an H1, and that is pretty much impossible in the EVC model.

If over-population is not the real cause what else is the reason every other country's GC is current while ours and China's is 2008 for EB2 and 2002 for EB3?

Other countries are also overpopulated. And China isn't overpopulated. It has a lot of people, but it is a very big country, larger than the US.

The issue is only about how many people from particular countries want to come to the US. They could choose to stay in their home country and help their home country to get ahead...

I mentioned one of the root causes for this whole issue.

Except that it is not a "root cause." You haven't thought the issue through.

You can save your JFK comments for some other preaching sessions of yours! You can have a job right away as a daily serial writer looking at the way you have distorted my comments.

Oh, an attitude...

I suggest getting an education before posting BS.

[JoeF]

@JoeF, do not distort my comments. I mentioned one of the root causes for this whole issue.

And the issue isn't overpopulation, the issue is poverty. With better education, in particular of women, birthrates tend to go down.

You may want to learn about socio-economics before falling into some popular, but wrong notions about overpopulation.

Things like micro credits help empower women, which also gets the birthrate down. There are lots of things that the people in the country could do if they just wanted to. But that requires thinking things through, and not just switching the brain off when you see the magic letters U, S, and A...

[AxialTilt]

It is not necessarily fraud, but the EVC model can not be used to get an H1.

There has to be an employer-employee relationship for an H1, and that is pretty much impossible in the EVC model.

Other countries are also overpopulated. And China isn't overpopulated. It has a lot of people, but it is a very big country, larger than the US.

The issue is only about how many people from particular countries want to come to the US. They could choose to stay in their home country and help their home country to get ahead...

Except that it is not a "root cause." You haven't thought the issue through.

Oh, an attitude...

I suggest getting an education before posting BS.

Wow, you are the first guy who said China is not over populated. Are all the people there fools to implement one child policy? 76% of people within China support that policy.

FYI China is not bigger than US. US is actually bigger than China but because of disputed territories, they are both ranked as 3/4 and not specifically 3 or 4. According to your comparison, you have two countries with same area, but 4.2 times more population, who needs 'education' now? Please re-code the whole web and re-author all the books that claim China is over-populated and mention that it is not over-populated. People there are looking for a 'educated' savior like you to stop the one-child policy and make its population 2 billion by next 20 years!

I have wasted enough of my time replying to your posts!!!

[Desi Dude]

Dude, it's laughable that you think people come to US coz their own country is overpopulated. It's like saying that Mr. Patel sitting on his sofa in his home in his country thinking - "hey the mall has been crowded these days me and my whole family should move to a less crowded country tomorrow" !!!! Hahaha.

People come to US for a better life for them and their children. Everyone wants to come to US. Even people sitting in Zambia would come if they had the means or knew ways to get in. The only reason why more Indians come to US because they have found the means and ways to get in, be it education or family etc.

[JoeF]

Wow, you are the first guy who said China is not over populated.

You obviously haven't been to the countryside in China.

Are all the people there fools to implement one child policy?

Has nothing to do with overcrowding of the countryside.

It applies to urban families.

From Wikipedia: "A spokesperson of the Committee on the One-Child Policy has said that approximately 35.9% of China's population is currently subject to the one-child restriction."

Thanks for showing that you are a bit clueless about these things...

[sampitroda]

Dude, it's laughable that you think people come to US coz their own country is overpopulated. It's like saying that Mr. Patel sitting on his sofa in his home in his country thinking - "hey the mall has been crowded these days me and my whole family should move to a less crowded country tomorrow" !!!! Hahaha.

People come to US for a better life for them and their children. Everyone wants to come to US. Even people sitting in Zambia would come if they had the means or knew ways to get in. The only reason why more Indians come to US because they have found the means and ways to get in, be it education or family etc.

I think overpopulation is definitely a reason for a below average living standard in India. Even though middle class people like me and others after getting educated cannot enjoy a better life because of sever competition in India for everything. Long queues for everything make it worse. I have noticed it here in US as well.

If you live in NYC, then live in Chicago and then live in Seattle. You will know the difference in aggressiveness in different cities. NYC being the most and Seattle being the least. Besides this if opportunities are more in India the it would negate the population effect. But opportunities would come only if we create and innovate. But an average Indian has to struggle for survival. So he does not want to take the risk to fail. Until he takes that risk he cannot create or innovate. He can only imitate (doing mundane IT jobs for which scope and nature of work has already been decided). The greatest thing about America is it gives an opportunity to fail and rise up again. It does not mock failures which is not possible in an over populated country. Ha.