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genius2018

Parents Visitor Visa rejection with 214(b)

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I am on H1B status since 2011 with approved petition till 2020 and GC is under process (I-140 Approved), also I have stamping done last year in India. I am currently in California.

My father is a farmer and my mother is a Homemaker. My father’s age is 65 years and mother’s 63 years.

My parents have 3 kids, one myself, working in USA, other two are my brother and sister both married and living in India.  

My father possession land, plots and is having own house in India.

I applied for their visitor visa and they attended interview on 05-April-2018 at Mumbai consulate, India.

I was sponsoring the trip and I have enough balance in my US bank account.

They have all the required documents as below:
I134s
Copy of H1B Approval
Copy of passport
Employment Letter
Copy of last three bank statements
Bank Account verification letter
Copy of last three salary Statements
Copy of last two years Tax returns.
Property papers (for my parent’s properties in India).

During interview they just asked 4 questions:

Que: what is your occupation?
Ans: Farmer

Que: Who stays in US?

Ans: Our son

 

Que: Where in US?

Ans: California

 

Que: What is your son doing?

Ans: He is working as software engineer.

 

Without asking any more question they got rejection with 214(b). They didn’t ask for any document. Without asking how you will you prove your ties. According to 214(b), applicant should have ties to their home country and have reason to come back to own country.

As my parents have their own properties in India. They have 2 kids and also have grand kids in India.

 

I want to re-apply their visa in next month. Please advise how to overcome 214(b) and get the approval.

What more details should I add to my application?

 

 Provided below details in my Ds-160:

Travel Information

The List of Purposes of Trip to the U.S.

Purpose of Trip to the U.S. (1): TEMP. BUSINESS PLEASURE VISITOR (B)

Specify: BUSINESS & TOURISM (TEMPORARY VISITOR) (B1/B2)

Have you made specific travel plans? NO

Intended Date of Arrival: 30 APRIL 2018

Intended Length of Stay in U.S.: 2 MONTH(S)

Work/Education/Training Information

Primary Occupation: AGRIC ULTURE

Present Employer or School Name: SELF - FARMER

Briefly Describe your Duties: FARMING, GROWING, IRRIGATING AND

HARVESTING C ROPS SUC H AS WHEAT, MUSTARD,

CASTOR, ETC

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Documents do not matter. They determine credibility in a couple of minutes based on experience and also their likes and dislikes. You could discuss the matter with the firm of Murthy in Chennai. The prevailing political winds do have an effect on Consulate staff who belong to one or the other philosophy.

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There is no sponsorship for visitors. Paying for the trip isn't sponsoring.

And bank balance means nothing. It is well known that money can be moved into and out of a bank account at the spur of the moment.

Also, you don't apply for a visa. They apply. They need to be able to convince the officer that they will return to their home country.

Coaching is also bad.

Edited by JoeF

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All of those documents you listed are YOURS, not theirs....YOUR documents and situation is not being adjudicated...it's your parents' situation on the table...you offering to pay the freight does not enhance anyone's chances of overcoming 214b, nor did anything you sent with them alleviate any concerns of the CO that they might decide to take up some sort of work in the US...whether child care or managing the front desk of a motel...and when is the growing season of all those crops? How can a farmer abandon his farm while stuff is supposed to be growing, etc???

I suspect they were asked more than the 4 questions listed....a lot of people whose applications were denied tell a hard to believe story about how they were not asked any questions or just 2 or something like that....the questions listed above would not have been sufficient to make a judgment call....no one asked how long they planned to stay (I think they did), or who would mind the farm in their absence (also I believe that was asked)..

And as Joe said, you do not apply for anything on their behalf - they apply (and qualify) on their own.

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Now I want to re-apply for their visa but this time the situation is totally changed, my wife was critically ill and passed away in mid of May-2018. So, me and my daughter (9 years old) want my parents to stay with us in USA for few months so that we get emotional support and help us to overcome grief and depression.

Any suggestion on how to reapply for my parents’ visitor visa?

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Now you are talking about having them come to provide child care.. ..something that is not allowed with a B2 visa...and a 'few months' suggests that the farm needs no help to run because there isn't one....and, however sad the situation is in the US, that fact does not change the aspect of current immigration law.....your parents will still have to overcome 214b, explain how they can leave their 'farm' for months on end and somehow convince the CO that they will not be providing child care (which is fact, what they will be doing)....and, as Joe said, YOU do not apply for them - they apply for themselves and are either approved or denied based on their OWN situation, not yours. Blunt perhaps, but that is the way it is,....who is, in fact, going to be taking care of the child while you go to work? That is a question that will be asked....and you saying that you have hired a nanny will not likely be believed (and said nanny could be fired the moment your parents arrive)...

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Thanks for your reply.

Yes, you are true, actually my parents cannot stay more than 2 months because my father needs to manage his farming occupation.

 We are planning for  6-8 weeks trip. 

We want reapply it again showing they are self-sponsoring their trip. My father has bank balance around 10 lakhs (I transferred 5 lakhs to his account in May 2018)

How many months of bank statement we need?  

What documents we need to prove the self-sponsorship? 

Can I fill DS-160 form for my parents? 

Please suggest either I should sponsor them again or they do their own sponsorship.

 

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On 4/5/2018 at 8:29 PM, Noah Lott said:

All of those documents you listed are YOURS, not theirs....YOUR documents and situation is not being adjudicated...it's your parents' situation on the table...you offering to pay the freight does not enhance anyone's chances of overcoming 214b, nor did anything you sent with them alleviate any concerns of the CO that they might decide to take up some sort of work in the US...whether child care or managing the front desk of a motel...and when is the growing season of all those crops? How can a farmer abandon his farm while stuff is supposed to be growing, etc???

I suspect they were asked more than the 4 questions listed....a lot of people whose applications were denied tell a hard to believe story about how they were not asked any questions or just 2 or something like that....the questions listed above would not have been sufficient to make a judgment call....no one asked how long they planned to stay (I think they did), or who would mind the farm in their absence (also I believe that was asked)..

And as Joe said, you do not apply for anything on their behalf - they apply (and qualify) on their own.

One more question asked was who will book your air ticket? 

My father answer our son will book it for us. Do you see anything wrong if child book ticket for parents?

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On 4/5/2018 at 10:49 PM, JoeF said:

There is no sponsorship for visitors. Paying for the trip isn't sponsoring.

And bank balance means nothing. It is well known that money can be moved into and out of a bank account at the spur of the moment.

Also, you don't apply for a visa. They apply. They need to be able to convince the officer that they will return to their home country.

Coaching is also bad.

Exactly!  As OP claims to have done so very recently. 

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11 hours ago, genius2018 said:

Thanks for your reply.

Yes, you are true, actually my parents cannot stay more than 2 months because my father needs to manage his farming occupation.

 We are planning for  6-8 weeks trip. 

We want reapply it again showing they are self-sponsoring their trip. My father has bank balance around 10 lakhs (I transferred 5 lakhs to his account in May 2018)

How many months of bank statement we need?  

What documents we need to prove the self-sponsorship? 

Can I fill DS-160 form for my parents? 

Please suggest either I should sponsor them again or they do their own sponsorship.

 

You're missing the point..

Please go over previous posts in this thread. The word "sponsorship" does not apply to tourist visas. You do not sponsor anyone to visit the US. Your parents could pay for their trip (technically you are paying by transferring money to their accounts to pad the balance, and the US embassy has ways of reviewing a transaction history if they choose to). 

Yes, you can help fill out their ds160. Other than that, best for you to stay out of the process. 

In the event they're denied again, perhaps your daughter and you could look into travelling to India for emotional support. I'm sure you could get time off work following the loss of a spouse.

Condolences on your loss.

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Dumping $$$ into a third party's account is a oft-tried scheme...COs have seen it before...it will not enhance your parents' chances of success...

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People need to get off their high horse..Majority of Indians applying for B2 visa are doing so bcz their children invite them..actually the parents get forced to apply..even if they get visa, these wilted, non English speaking parents loathe and dread a second visit to US let alone the concept of permanently settling down there..

Couple of years ago it was a moment of agape at Terminal 2 in Changi international airport which is an almost exclusive terminal for Indian departure flights..just standing room only with returning Indian tourists carrying loads of shopping sacks carrying fashion merchandise.. talked to few of them they don’t even care to apply for US B2 visa..clearly US loss..

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On 7/13/2018 at 11:45 AM, Noah Lott said:

Dumping $$$ into a third party's account is a oft-tried scheme...COs have seen it before...it will not enhance your parents' chances of success...

How to show the strong ties because most of the time VO even don’t ask such details.

Even in DS-160 they don’t have question where we can describe that my parents have land and house in India.

For reapply in ds-160 for job description I am going to write "Managing land based assets for productive profitable crop yields".

Can you please suggest what I can write so that it show strong ties?

 

Thanks in advance.

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(climbing down from my 'high' horse)...as a retired CO, what I am saying is that any sort of 'game playing, either with word games (like the above, "managing land based assets for productive profitable crop yields; are not the words of a farmer....nor of the applicant.....and dumping money into a bank account to 'make it look good' is a shallow ruse.....all these sorts of silly maneuvers do is cast doubt upon the applicant, and since we have only around 3-4 minutes to make a judgment call, none of the above will add anything positive to the interview....it is far better to be yourself, and tell the truth and use your own words instead relying on others to speak for you or create the illusion of wealth you don't possess...

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Back on the high horse as a follow up....when I was interviewing, if I saw/read this sort of nonsense (money hastily placed in a bank account or Madison Avenue word games on the application), well, I knew right away that the applicant was not being totally truthful and honest with me, and therefore, why should I believe anything else they have to say?  Answer: I don't/didn't. Since I had to interview 125+ people a day, these types of cases were quick refusals....why? Because the applicant instantly failed to establish their OWN credibility and were content to try some silly ploy to fool me.... and that was not going to happen. Credibility is the best asset an applicant can possess and it is not always easy to establish one's credibility, but it is very easy to tarnish it...and when that happens, that is the end of the interview...there is no going back, no apologizing for having tried some silly trick...it's too late (at least for that interview)...and once damaged, credibility is then even harder to establish....so please, stop trying to play 'Let's Fool the CO'...because COs are not stupid nor naive....many of the seasoned ones have seen or heard all the various baloney that applicants and/or their relatives use to try and obtain a visa, when merely telling the truth would have given the applicants a much better chance.

Edited by Noah Lott

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11 hours ago, genius2018 said:

How to show the strong ties because most of the time VO even don’t ask such details.

Even in DS-160 they don’t have question where we can describe that my parents have land and house in India.

For reapply in ds-160 for job description I am going to write "Managing land based assets for productive profitable crop yields".

Can you please suggest what I can write so that it show strong ties?

 

Thanks in advance.

You cannot write anything that will somehow, as if by magic, establish strong ties on behalf of your parents....written words are largely meaningless.....anyone can write anything on a piece of paper, but those words prove nothing, will not overcome 214b and will not make an application 'stronger' in any way, shape or form. That is why there is a personal interview - I don't want to read words that someone else wrote; I want to talk to the applicant...., not you....nor anyone else.

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An applicant is the only individual who knows their circumstances. It's unlikely strangers on a public forum could advise you on specifics. Fill out the ds160 to the best of your knowledge and have your folks reapply. Or, alternatively, as suggested earlier, your daughter and you look into traveling to your parents if their visa attempts aren't successful. 

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PLease note that I have not offered specific advice on how one might obtain a B2 visa.....I have merely suggested that telling the truth, whatever it may be, is the best way to approach an interview, and any or all attempts to try and outwit a CO will likely fail...remember, the COs enter interview notes into their computer system....and you do not want some phrase like ' lacks credibility because of........."...or 'showed me a phony bank account with money recently deposited in it from the US'....or 'someone wrte..'managing land based assets....blah blah blah...'...clearly not the words of the applicant,....applicant unwilling to answer specifics without referring to letters or notes from relatives....'...

any of those or similar phrases will label the applicant as  someone who is uncomfortable telling the truth...and that is the surest way to fail again in the future at another interview....

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5 hours ago, Noah Lott said:

PLease note that I have not offered specific advice on how one might obtain a B2 visa.....I have merely suggested that telling the truth, whatever it may be, is the best way to approach an interview, and any or all attempts to try and outwit a CO will likely fail...remember, the COs enter interview notes into their computer system....and you do not want some phrase like ' lacks credibility because of........."...or 'showed me a phony bank account with money recently deposited in it from the US'....or 'someone wrte..'managing land based assets....blah blah blah...'...clearly not the words of the applicant,....applicant unwilling to answer specifics without referring to letters or notes from relatives....'...

any of those or similar phrases will label the applicant as  someone who is uncomfortable telling the truth...and that is the surest way to fail again in the future at another interview....

I wasn't commenting on your post. Rather on OP's post seeking specific suggestions for the ds160. 

@Noah Lott I agree with the content of your posts, backed by experience; and while posts may come across as harsh, they are arguably facts without sugarcoating. A majority of the audience on this forum may not been quite as keen on that, I suppose. 

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OK....sorry....I was not trying to offer 100% guaranteed advice on how to get a visa, but rather a strong suggestion on what not to do or try..(based on years of experience)... so many people, applicants and/or their relatives/'friends', etc, keep trying to find some magic solution to their visa woes....for some reason(s) believing that there is some piece of paper or some unique way of expressing one's self that will automatically convince a CO to dole out a B2 visa....but....there is no document I've ever encountered or are aware of that overcomes 214b instantly, nor are there 'magic phrases'or answers to give to a CO that will convince that CO to hand over a visa....no letter from any congressman/senator can change a decision, no letters from anyone in the US, any business nor organization that can do the trick either....no amount of money in a bank account results in an instant approval...no third party can 'guarantee' that the applicant will abide by the terms of a B2 visa or somehow 'make' that individual depart the United States at the end of an authorized visit,etc....yet people keep searching or asking for some magic solution.....but....such a solution does not exist, because if it did, nearly every applicant would find a way to get it and offer it up during their interview....

For the most part, those who are having difficulties obtaining a B2 visa can, by and large, thank all of those fellow countrymen who decided to thumb their noses at our laws and remain in the US...for they are the ones causing problems....because when the COs find out (and often they can), those transgressions just make it even harder for the next applicant who gives similar answers or promises to get a B2 visa...because the COs are hard pressed to decide just who might be telling the truth, who really plans to abide by the terms of a B2 visa and who is far less likely to have the ever popular 'mind change' while collecting their baggage at a US airport....no easy task....

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3 hours ago, Provence said:

 

@Noah Lott I agree with the content of your posts, backed by experience; and while posts may come across as harsh, they are arguably facts without sugarcoating. A majority of the audience on this forum may not been quite as keen on that, I suppose. 

The hotel owner in Vegas or the fancy restaurant owner on the south beach survive on (foreign) tourists “arriving” and spending their hard earned money to run his business..not on the vivid paranoia of a CO that stands in the way of their business revenues..and definitely not on that of an ex CO... (on the contrary, the foreign mission posts are paid by these tax payers if not by the foreigners’ B2 application fees..) the world has rapidly evolved to be a global economy in the last decade and obviously few old timers are unable to comprehend..

as I said, check out Changi terminal B.. they seem to don’t mind these foreign spending flooding in..by the way dinosaurs are known to extinct bcz they failed to adopt to evolution..

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And c’on .. enuf with the misleading statements..in this day of credit cards and e- transactions and steaming economy who will keep cash in their banks for two years leading up to a mere B2 interview to prove something..indians invest on real estate in India duh..

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Clearly C-G has never been a CO....virtually no one from India overstays in China for numerous reasons...but overstays and working illegally in the US by those from India (and many other countries) are quite common...and COs are tasked legally and ethically to screen those potential overstayers and/or workers from getting B2 visas....there is no legal basis for favorably adjudicating a B2 application on the faint hope that the applicant will go to the US and spend $X.....sure, tourism is important, but so is protecting our economy...

As to this farmer allegedly 'investing' in real estate in India is laughable...besides, the $$ came from the US, not the sale of some mysterious parcel of land...or through the sale of 1000 pounds of lentils.....and few marginal farmers have such a polished command of the English language that they would write, under 'Occupation', ...'managing land based assets.....[blah blah blah].....COs don't have the luxury of time to sift through some applicant's feeble attempt to somehow persuade the CO via sleight of hand to issue a B2 visa...when one sees the nonsense as above, well, that's pretty much the end for that day for that applicant....my own personal view.....you try to fool me, you better succeed, because when you don't, II would leave a detailed explanation in the computer file about whatever silly games were perpetrated by the applicant...so that none of my colleagues in the future will be taken in..when an applicant declined to be honest with me, then a denial of their application quickly followed....and their credibility took a big hit....and all of this happened because the applicant and/or their relatives decided to try and be clever...I was not guided by some notion that by handing out a B2 visa, our shopping malls would remain open....that is not the basis for adjudicating B2 applications....if you doubt this (based obviously on zero experience and zero knowledge of our laws), then by all means pick up a copy of the Immigration & Nationality Act, turn to the section on certain non-immigrant visas and review the law.....there will be no mention of making a favorable decision based on the potential spending habits of the applicant....

Now, if the US had stronger border controls and stopped tolerating overstaying and mind changing, more people might get the chance to get a tourist visa, but that day is far in the future. There are a couple of ways this could happen without costing the US taxpayer a dime....

(1) End all adjustment/change of status from B2 visas. If you arrive as a tourist, you leave as one. NO 'sudden' desires to study basket-weaving 5 minutes after arrival....go back home to apply for an F1 visa.

(2) Eliminate all waivers....you overstay, you are inadmissable for a period of time, no matter who you marry

(3) If you 'fall in love' at baggage claim, you must return home in order to apply for an immigrant visa, without exception.

(4) Each day of overstay translates into one year of inadmissibility...if you don't like that penalty, then don't overstay.

(5) Eliminate virtually all B2 extensions....medical emergencies only....not child care.

(6) If you work without permission, you incur an automatic 5 year bar....no exceptions...

(7) Stop admitting people automatically for six months....let the border folks decide...if you want to stay a while, you must convince the border officials, who will access the CO's notes and your application to see for how long you said you planned to stay....if you wrote 'two weeks', then two weeks is it....not a sudden mind change to stay six months and work at a motel or babysit....you either do what you said or you don't enter my country. Few Americans have sudden mind changes and alter their vacation plans from one or two weeks to six months on a whim....yet for some reason, people from developing countries can readily abandon their lives at a moment's notice to camp out for six months (or more)....makes no sense, unless there are other reasons for such a prolonged 'visit.'

Bottom line: be a responsible adult, obey our laws, or expect considerable difficulties returning to the US. None of the above proposals would cost taxpayers a penny....and would not negatively affect those honest people who will abide by our laws....

Edited by Noah Lott

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12 hours ago, cap-gap said:

The hotel owner in Vegas or the fancy restaurant owner on the south beach survive on (foreign) tourists “arriving” and spending their hard earned money to run his business..not on the vivid paranoia of a CO that stands in the way of their business revenues..and definitely not on that of an ex CO... (on the contrary, the foreign mission posts are paid by these tax payers if not by the foreigners’ B2 application fees..) the world has rapidly evolved to be a global economy in the last decade and obviously few old timers are unable to comprehend..

as I said, check out Changi terminal B.. they seem to don’t mind these foreign spending flooding in..by the way dinosaurs are known to extinct bcz they failed to adopt to evolution..

Boy o boy.. how about sticking to visa-related topics; personal denigration doesn't add value to a discussion. Paranoia/old timers.. really? 

Every CO, not just the one posting here, has to balance the odds of a B2 applicant returning home; that's a requirement codified in US law. COs are human, they have to make a decision based on the ds160 and the interview. Last I checked, a B2 visa is for tourism, family visits, etc. Every foreign visitor to the US is welcome to spend money and sightsee; most do, and exit the US on time. But what about those who forget to return? A 6-week promise at an interview suddenly changes into a 6-month "visit" as soon as the visa is issued. One only needs to browse the B2 to COS/AOS threads on different forums. 

Sure, folks are welcome to travel to Singapore, or any welcoming nation. But why are there still huge NIV lines outside US embassies if Changi has tourists flooding in? Agreed, it's helpful to evolve as practical, but I don't see the US going by the way of dinosaurs anytime soon. 

I'm sure the OP isn't happy his thread got hijacked away from his discussion. 

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The OP wanted some 'magic answer' that no one has....others have chimed in with their 2c worth on the broad topic of tourist visa adjudication.....there is no magic answer.....I don't even have one after having interviewed tens of thousands of people...there is no magic formula for getting a B2 visa....but overall, the best chance to get one is to be honest rather than trying to be clever...and if you do get one, then do what you said you were going to do rather than something else....

Quote

 

 

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